This has probably been discussed previously but I don't seem to get a concise answer on the interwebs. I have a Sturmey Archer 3 speed kickback hub and I have a Shimano 333 stick shifter. Will these two work together or is there a way to make them work together. I saw some information on another sight about Sturmey having a universal cable kit that would allow it to operate with the Shimano shifter, but I didn't know if that would hold water or not. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
Shimano Shifter and S-A Hub
- Thread starter Scooter3
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do you mean 3sp coaster brake?
every time i've asked the answer has been no, or at best barely getting 2 of the three to work with one being sketchy. i'm in the same boat though. i have a couple of shimano shifters and s/a hubs.
every time i've asked the answer has been no, or at best barely getting 2 of the three to work with one being sketchy. i'm in the same boat though. i have a couple of shimano shifters and s/a hubs.
It seems like this has come up several times in the past couple weeks. I think that the bottom line is that the Shimano and S-A shifters seem to move the shift cable different amounts during shifts, so they wouldn't move the plunger the correct travel to shift properly. To complicate it, I think that the S-A hub travels a different amount between 1-2 than it does between 2-3. I say that based on the fact that any S-A shifter I've seen moves a lot farther in the 2-3 shift than in the 1-2 shift, but maybe there's an eccentric mechanism in it that compensates. I'll have to measure actual cable movement...
Yeah its a 3spd coaster brake. I took the shifter apart and basically theres just a plate with holes in it that a bearing pops into. I guessing that is what indexes the shifter in relation to the hub. Seems to me that if there is enough travel in the shifter lever that you could modify that plate according to where the SA Hub indexes to get the Shimano shifter to work. OR like expjawa said, there distance between 1-2 and 2-3 is different, then possibly make a new plate with the holes drilled in it accordingly to make up for that distance. Im just throwing out ideas right now in all honesty. Anymore suggestions would be helpful. 
You may have to use a friction based shifter instead of an indexed shifter, like some of the 5 speed stick shifts or even old school 10 speed shifters.
With indexed shifters, you are stuck with whatever cable travel there is between each gear. The chance of that lining up with a modern hub (or even different brand hub) is not very likely. With the tension based shifters, you just move the shifter until it shifts to the gear you want. Just like the old 10 speeds. As long as the total cable travel from 1st to 5th is as long or longer than the total cable travel of the hub you are connecting to, it should work fine.
I don't know if there is a way to remove the detents or indexes from a 3 speed shifter or not, but that may be another solution.
How much total cable travel do you have for your hub?
For reference, I measured the cable travel of the 5 speed stick shifts that I have for sales and there is 1-3/8" travel from Low to High.
With indexed shifters, you are stuck with whatever cable travel there is between each gear. The chance of that lining up with a modern hub (or even different brand hub) is not very likely. With the tension based shifters, you just move the shifter until it shifts to the gear you want. Just like the old 10 speeds. As long as the total cable travel from 1st to 5th is as long or longer than the total cable travel of the hub you are connecting to, it should work fine.
I don't know if there is a way to remove the detents or indexes from a 3 speed shifter or not, but that may be another solution.
How much total cable travel do you have for your hub?
For reference, I measured the cable travel of the 5 speed stick shifts that I have for sales and there is 1-3/8" travel from Low to High.
Scooter3 said:Yeah its a 3spd coaster brake. I took the shifter apart and basically theres just a plate with holes in it that a bearing pops into. I guessing that is what indexes the shifter in relation to the hub. Seems to me that if there is enough travel in the shifter lever that you could modify that plate according to where the SA Hub indexes to get the Shimano shifter to work. OR like expjawa said, there distance between 1-2 and 2-3 is different, then possibly make a new plate with the holes drilled in it accordingly to make up for that distance. Im just throwing out ideas right now in all honesty. Anymore suggestions would be helpful.
I expect you're are right. I have a 3-speed Fastback, with a busted S-A hub. I was wondering if I could make, as you describe, a new index plate for the stick shifter to allow me to use it with a new either 5 or 8 speed S-A hub. You would just need to know how far to space the index detents to give you the cable travel required. Should be easy enough to figure out.
I'd question whether or not using a friction shifter for an internal gear hub would truly "work fine". It seems to me that there is always the risk of not fully engaging a gear, either partially engaging two positions or not having enough engagement in one gear to really carry the load. That's why they're always indexed, to make sure they're always fully engaged.
Sure, you probably could get away with it, maybe for a while. But for me, it would always bother me in the back of mind and I doubt I would accept that. But that's just me, looking at it from the point of view of an (automotive) drivetrain system engineer...
I asked this EXACT same question a couple of weeks ago. If you look at an SA shifter you can see the distance (a.k.a. the amount of cable movement) between 2&3 is greater than the distance between 1&2. The Shimano is more evenly spaced.
Your simplest solution is to get an SA shifter
It looks like there's a few choices of 3 speed SA shifters around $20-$25.
The Orion model for around $22 looks pretty cool.
You could always sell the Shimano to offset the costs.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?rt=n..._sc=1&_sop=15&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m301
Good luck!
Cheers,
Dr. T
Your simplest solution is to get an SA shifter
It looks like there's a few choices of 3 speed SA shifters around $20-$25.
The Orion model for around $22 looks pretty cool.
You could always sell the Shimano to offset the costs.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?rt=n..._sc=1&_sop=15&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m301
Good luck!
Cheers,
Dr. T
I saw where this question had been asked but never did find decent answers. I dont know if a tension style shifter would work, seems it could slide out of gear go into neutral and I wouldn't have any breaks. I want to use a stick style shifter as apposed to the thumb or twist grip shifter. The stick goes with the style of my project better. I have looked at the Sturmey stick shifters but they are sorta pricey when compared to others.
Theoretically, it seems that even if the shifter indexes and the hub is not in gear, the hub can still engage between shifter indexes because it is still moving the cable. So given that, one would think that you could figure out where the hub engages and move the indexes by making new holes in the plate or a new plate. Really, you could take the bearing out of the shifter and try it that way as the shifter would act the same as a tension shifter and not lock or index in place. I don't have the hub installed yet so I can't really say any cable length or test anything yet. I also cant swap the hub either, I have 28 spoke wheels and trying to find another 28 spoke 3 speed coaster brake hub is near impossible.
Theoretically, it seems that even if the shifter indexes and the hub is not in gear, the hub can still engage between shifter indexes because it is still moving the cable. So given that, one would think that you could figure out where the hub engages and move the indexes by making new holes in the plate or a new plate. Really, you could take the bearing out of the shifter and try it that way as the shifter would act the same as a tension shifter and not lock or index in place. I don't have the hub installed yet so I can't really say any cable length or test anything yet. I also cant swap the hub either, I have 28 spoke wheels and trying to find another 28 spoke 3 speed coaster brake hub is near impossible.
Scooter3 said:
I have had dozens of 3 speeds and curently have 4 older 60's Sturmey Archer AW 3speed hubed bikes, two Shimano 333 and 3sc equipt bikes and a new Shimano Nexus equipt bike, so I loves my 3 speeds.
Your ANSWER: Shimano shifters will NOT work for Sturmey Archer hubs and likewise. Friction shifters may work if your good at sensing your shift points on a Sturmey Archer hub, BUT this can ruin your hubs internal components. I have seen this before. And you COULD build your own indexed shifter if an experienced fabricator and knowing how the hubs work and being precise with your shift points. Good luck.
axsepul said:
You mean from a Stingray, Krate or Fastback? Schwinn used S-A hubs on these bikes, so essentially, these shifters are S-A 3-speed shifters. BTW, if anyone has an extra, let me know... :mrgreen:
I'm going to throw this out there, just to stir the pot a little. I just bought this Shimano Click Stick on the 'Bay, to use with a Nexus3 hub I have.
But if you look at the package label in the center, it says "For any make 3-Speed Hub". That tells me that at least some of the Shimano shifter could be made to work with an S-A hub... I will post more info about it when I receive the shifter.
But if you look at the package label in the center, it says "For any make 3-Speed Hub". That tells me that at least some of the Shimano shifter could be made to work with an S-A hub... I will post more info about it when I receive the shifter.
I think you can make a spring loaded ball detent plate, or even a notched plate like old Harley hand shift motorcycles, and use with some tidy friction shifter parts and lever; been thinking this through myself for a while as I like the old toptube mounted shifter on early 3spds, but dont have one. To 'feel' out the right places you can do a bench mock up and mark the plate for a visual, then use it a while. I think the trick is to start with a clean and lubed hub and make sure each gear is going into full, proper engagement so you dont get a popout.
