46 Schwinn? $200?

[xray]

A local person is trying to help an 80 year old neighbor sell this restored 46 Schwinn for $200

I have not seen it in person yet, but the seller says the serial number is on the crank, that the serial number might make you think it is a 50s bike, but there is some story about a warehouse burning own and serial numbers being reused?

The bike is repainted to match original colors, probably nothing original except the frame.

I am in touch with seller is anyone is interested, and if I don't take it myself.

(I just realized you can't see the link unless you are signed up for the website, so I am putting photos together, will post shortly)

 

[xray]

It has derailleur gears, not original, probably newer wheels... I can't figure out brakes, I don't see any. Almost looks like the rear hub could be a coaster, with a 3 or 4 speed cassette? I've never seen that before myself. Wild looking old derailleur, what you can see of it below.

From the photos it looks like a nice older restoration. The 80 year old seller claims to have gotten it when he was 10 years old, and to have restored it some years ago.

Local Schwinn dealer is said to have appraised it at $500. This is Cape Coral, FL, by the way.

 

[Wildcat]

For $200 I think it'a good deal. Even though it isn't original as you stated, it is pre-1952 because the serial number is on the bottom bracket. That gearing setup is something I haven't seen but heard about. It does look vintage. It may also have the original S-2 wheels.

The Schwinn factory had a fire that destroyed all the serial number records before 1948. Lists of the serial numbers can be found here:
http://www.angelfire.com/rant/allday101/SchwinnCodes1.html

There is also a lookup form, but that's for the serial numbers on the left rear dropout, 1952 and later.

Yours is at least a 46, when the forward facing dropouts and integrated kickstand first were produced. You can guess the year if it doesn't match up with the 48-52 numbers by the letter. You'll notice they went with a letter then numbers for each year or so, by backing it up you can estimate when each letter went with what year. 1948 was mostly E, then 49 was F, and so on. So, 46 may have a serial that begins with B or C, maybe after the war they started with A, just guessing.

The cranks may have a two digit year on them, in the middle between the crank arms. You'll have to pull them off to see that, something like "AS 46"

But overall, that looks like a good deal at $200.

 

[Wildcat]

I looked again, it looks like the cranks were replaced, the numbers on it won't date the bike, but it looks like the original chain wheel.

 

[CrazyDave]

$200 sounds good if you dig it.

 

[user 135]

Those old 3 speed Cyclo Gear setups are pretty cool. I have never see one installed on a coasterbrake though. That may be a recipe for disaster.

 

[clouseau]

That is a rare and unique rear hub and derailer, I've only ever seen one other one just like it.

 

[xray]

So, I picked up the bike, even though it was not something I was especially looking for, and not something I think is original enough to be real special.

The derailleur set up is something I have never seen. The bike has a New Departure coaster brake with a French made Simplex derailleur that is very similar to the Super Olympic that Clousseau has posted above.

The rack does not look as old as the rest of the package, but the mounting system to the rear stays looks like it has to be 50s or 60s, and it has a built in tail light that looks like it might be more modern judging by the conditition, especially the red lens.

 

[Wildcat]

Those old 3 speed Cyclo Gear setups are pretty cool. I have never see one installed on a coasterbrake though. That may be a recipe for disaster.

I'd have to see it in action. I tried to put gears on a coaster, it never worked because the backward pedal for brakes always bent the derailler or the pedal needed more travel to stop.

 

[xray]

I'd have to see it in action. I tried to put gears on a coaster, it never worked because the backward pedal for brakes always bent the derailler or the pedal needed more travel to stop.

As cman says, "may be a recipe for disaster." I've never seen this set up work, but this derailleur does not have a lot of slack in the chain and ti seems pretty stout. If I keep this bike, I would almost certainly take it off in favor of something not so weird. At first, I hoped it was some rare, sought-after set up I'd never heard of... upon seeing that it was a New Departure coaster with a Simplex derailleur, I knew it was cobbled together, perhaps to no good end.

On the other hand, I have to say: it looks like it has all been together for a long, long time. I can't figure why the old guy held onto it so long if it was no good.

I'll put some tires on it and see if it works or not.

 

[heartlandcruisers]

never see that setup but if its a rare setup and the bike is indeed that old then id say 200 s a very fair price even to have it shipped still a great deal I say pull the trigger and buy it ad grips and looks like tires may need either inflation or replacement and you got a sweet bike straightbars are older not sure exactly I had a 51 with that straightbar setup they make excellent klunkers but id say keep this one as it is

 

[Wildcat]

With 2 curved top bars it's a DX model, but I didn't see any illustrations in the 1940's catalogs I looked at. I would like to know how that cluster is attached to the coaster hub. Was it welded on on made to go on there?
If the brakes work ok, I'd also say keep it in that configuration, it might be the only one.

Here's a 46, starts with a B.

All the pics of the 46 model show the other chain guard.

You may have the original rack with a repop tail light.

 

[Toeslider]

Is the kickstand tapered? Only '46 models had that I'm told.

 

[xray]

Helpful comments, all, thanks. When all was said and done, I picked up the bike for $100, so I feel pretty good, no matter what I have to do to it.

I was looking at the 46 catalog online, and noticed what you are saying - that the curved bars do not appear there.

The own is in his 80s but I bought the bike through his realtor, who was helping the family clean up the house, which needed to be empty by this weekend.

It's possible his memory is not all that good. He told the realtor this was his own childhood bike, given to him when he was ten. He restored it himself at some point, and the paint job is not half bad. I'm almost thinking it was put together from more than one bike.

I wont start tearing into this bike for a while - it was a complete impulse purchase with no plans. I figured I could always flip it and get my money back.

This is certainly a 46 or later, as it has the integrated kick stand which started in 46. I did not notice any taper - but I did notice the kick stand is in better condition than I'd expect - these usually show more wear - might have been replaced. The curved bars puzzle me.

 

[Wildcat]

Check the serial number, that may answer some questions. Also, they probably had more models than shown in the catalogs back then. In the 50's and later, they included the price lists which included everything they made. Post up the number, or just the beginning part of it.

 

[heartlandcruisers]

oh yeah you can flip that for double your money with no problem if you go that route even without doing anything it is a very desirable bike in my oppinion even at a deuce it as a good deal but a hondo is even better heck if you were near e id double your money on it myself just because that rear configuration is something ive never seen before im kinda curious how it all works please show us pics how it's done and how well the braking works i know alot of us are curious how the configuration was done

 

[xray]

B20544 - I'm seeing the number was used twice, in 1952 or 1957 rather than any reference to 1946.

Some of the 1952 bikes look about the same - except for the curved bars, the chain guard, and chain ring... and the weird derailleur that had to be an add-on.

I think the seller's memory was failing him, and this is a frankenbike.

 

[Wildcat]

That lookup tool is for numbers on the dropout only. If yours is on the bottom bracket, all of those numbers are before 1952. With a B, it's almost a sure thing it's 1946.

 

[xray]

Thanks - I thought that since the lookup tool said the number was used twice, that accounted for its being on the bottom bracket. But, now I am seeing from a couple of sources and remembering that others here have told me the same thing - that it's a '46.

 

[xray]

For those who commented on or asked about the derailleur/coaster combo, I got the bike working tonight. It just needed a new front tire.

The combo is definitely a little hinky. It stops the bike, but wouldn't stop it hard. You can back pedal and activate the brake, but it feels like you'd have to back pedal hard enough to do some damage to the idler arm in order to jam on the brake. I did notice that that the person who set this up apparently put a little guide on the chain stay to prevent the slackened top portion of the chain (when you brake) from swinging wildly, but you do get that inevitable slackening that you probably all expected. It is not nearly as much slack as you'd have on a five to 9 speed derailleur, since this is only a three speed, and since each cog is only about one or two teeth different from the adjoining cog.

I'll probably disassemble the bike entirely and clean it up real good, lube everything, and replace the Chinese wheelset with a new alloy wheelset and maybe a Shimano 3 speed coaster brake hub. I think by the time I am done, I'll have a pretty nice looking standard, base model 46 Schwinn with a 3 speed coaster and nice tires, and I'll probably have $350 in it. I'm going to leave it as "original" as I can otherwise. (Considering it has a good diy paint job, new wheels, seat, bars, etc. - you can't call it "original," but "kind of as found.")

Probably the only other thing I might consider is trying to find a somewhat period hairpin type seat. That would be sweet.