cwc and 38 elgin

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A.S.BOLTNUT

He who dies with the most toys ,still dies No Fear
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i'm posting these for another member Mo in ca.,who is having trouble with posting pic,s ,here you go Mo !

cwc.jpg
cwc2.jpg

16HUFFY001.jpg


nice finds by the way ..
 
Thanks for posting the pics up for me Ralph. The CWC was one that I posted for trade up on the board a few weeks back, but was not greeted too well as a trade. So it sat, then I went over to a guys house that my picken' buddy brought me to, who he met while on his garbage route. Seems he had literally mounds of bike part peeking over the 5ft fence. Curiousity got the best of him and he knocked on the door to see if anything in the back was for sale. Seems as everything pretty much had a price. So here I am with him a few days later after he picked up a 50's or early sixties girls Schwing :D Hollywood from this guy to see what else was to be had. The person was a real nice guy, who apparently would pick up any bike left in the trash, or during community pick up for the last 20 yrs. As I walked in, against the fence is a girls 30ish Hawthorne. It had a sweet gothic gooseneck( now going on my Silver King Monark after rechroming) a sweet forged motorcycle style kickstand( also getting chromed and going on the KING) and s set of skirt guards( going to a forum member) and a trussed set of forks. I am not into girl bikes so I wanted it for the parts. In the end 2 months later I got it. Going further into the bike jungle as there were parts and bikes of all makes models and condition scattered everywhere and took up the entire yard. He seemed to have a large number of older girls bikes and Schwinn muscle bikes, which my friend over the last few month cleaned him out of. In the long haul I ended up with a 90's proflex( which I knew nothing about, but knew that funky front end would look super cool on a rat) that yielded the Girvin fork, The Hawthorne, and a 1970 Chrome Schwinn Super sport (how rare is that), all for a C$. I also score a few weeks ago a sears Screamer musclebike frame that has an early Schwinn locking fork, these I am going to post for sale soon. The Hawthorne gave up its goods, then my other buddy at the shop bought the remainder of the bike to restore for his wife(.... it I should kept that lucky seven seat post :shock: coulda used it on the CWC). The CWC was taken in as a trade when a guy didn't have the $ to buy an 80's looptail Mongoose frame I picked about ten years prior from a garbage heap. Been siting on my wall doing nothing, so I think the trade had me coming out smelling good.He also at that time spotted my 1982 chrome GJS BMX bike on the wall(my original racer when I built it at the shop I worked at when I was 14 yrs old), he asked if it too was for sale. Told him I had kept it cause it was rare and my first build and it would take dire financial problem or situation for me to sell. Well a month later the SilverKing pops up on CL in FL and I needed mula $, and GJS was never going to be ridden by my fat ... anymore so it gave it's self for the KING. The Elgin was a very recent CL find, the guys is a semi-collector who fixes bikes up for resale. Had some cool stuff in the yard though. He had it title as a Huffy, think he put it down wrong as he knew it was an Elgin. So the next day I trucked the 50 mile trip to get it before someone else noticed the error. Bought it and checked out his stash. He has a sweet tandem that has the boys straight bar front and the girls pass thru rear, has only the frame but I am going to try and get it from him to do a funky restorat! I am so amazed that both these guys had enough forethought to literally at times drag these carcasses from garbage heaps and bring them back. Well it has been paying off with some pretty cool finds lately. I think I am going to stop and work on what I got, the addiction can be all consuming to pick and not finish the projects in hand(well maybe after this weekends sale :idea: :idea: ). Thanks for checking this out Mi Hijos...... Mo....... Picken' since I was 9 years old!
 
FYI…

Both of the bikes pictured can be dated by frame features. The Murray built Elgin is between late 1940 and 1942 (dated by the curved down tube) and the Cleveland Welding frame is from 1947 through 1949 (dated again by the curve of the down tube and the dropout style)
 
Phil I dated the Elgin by the pics I have seen on other sites and there dates is there an ID bank like the schwinns to be sure, same with the CWC..Thanks.....Mo
 
Hi Mo,

There are no factory lists correlating serial numbers and manufacturing dates for Cleveland Welding or pre-war Murray available in the public domain. I have been logging CWC serial numbers for some time and correlating them and bike features with each other to develop an approximate time line. I am working on doing the same for several other manufacturers including Murray but I don’t have enough data yet to publish anything.

Unfortunately there is as much, if not more, misinformation on the internet (regarding vintage bikes) as there is accurate information so many bikes and manufacturing dates that are published are incorrect. That information gets passed on and can leave people more confused than if there was nothing available.

Still there are several features that can pin down the potential window of production on most frames and for the prewar Murray frames the curved down tube is one of them. By the catalogs the curved tube wasn’t available until 1941. A 1938 Murray Elgin would be similar to your bike but it would have a straight down tube.

The Cleveland Welding frame can be dated by the specific style of the dropout stampings and the specific curve of the down tube. The window of intersection of the two is roughly 1947 through 1949. If you post the serial number along with the Cw or ACw suffix (if it has one) I can narrow the window down further.
 
Hey Phil will definitely will agree as to misinformation. The Excelsior I am working on according to the date and the site it should be a 48 but I see that the 46 (again with a grain of salt ) has front entry rear dropouts. Mine has rear entry dropouts that would make it older right than 48. It has skiptooth front and rear sprockets and seat post clamp is part of the seat tube. The cranks look to be original dog leg and sweetheart ring and it says 33 so, is there a leftover 33 that is later stamped as a 48 I DON'T KNOW, bugs the heck out of me. Here are some #'s for you on the CW D79753 what looks to be grind off 38 after that sequence and of course the C encircled W. Next the Elgin has on top what looks like N45(or)S on the upper left and below that, SD111307. So here's another mystery ID for you. the Elgin does have it's badge intact :) , CW is badgeless :cry: Thanks again any info only furthers this mans knowledge.....Mo
 
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