Schwinn year and model please..

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Hi!

I picked up this Schwinn but was hoping someone could tell me what date and model it is? any idea on value in its current state would be great too.. the serial number under the bottom bracket/crank is D00172 and it has hand painted lines if that is any help.

Any info is greatly appreciated..

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It sorta kinda looks like a Schwinn, but it sorta don't. Dropouts look like prewar Schwinn but the welds where the top bars meet the head tube don't look Schwinn at all. (scratches head...)
If it is a Schwinn, it looks like it could be a '40 DX, but I'll stick my neck out and say "not Schwinn". Might be wrong. Gary
 
Gary, I thought the same thing last night. The chainstay welds at the BB look very Schwinny. The headtube could be fillet brazed by hand instead of electroforged.

Tricky, Can you post better pictures of the
  • decal (never seen one like that)
    headtube area(Front part where the fork and stem slide into)
 
Hi guys, thanks for your comments.
Here are some more pics. If it's not a Schwinn then what would it be?

I'm guessing the decal was put on some years after, there is no brand on the decal at all. I haven't seen any other Schwinns with hand painted pin stripes (the goldy/orange colour appears to be original).. have you seen this on this style of bike before ? nearly all of the Schwinn DXs I could find on the net had the same design white head tube and design.

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That neck is a Wald. I call it the "nutcracker model". They were used on prewar bikes from late 30's into the 40's so that would be correct. Unusual bike for sure. Gary
 
tttrickyyy said:
(the goldy/orange colour appears to be original).. have you seen this on this style of bike before ? nearly all of the Schwinn DXs I could find on the net had the same design white head tube and design.

Looks like Schwinn Coppertone to me. What year was the first year for Coppertone. The fork is interesting too. Very similar to the some Schwinn New World forks that I have seen from the 38-40.
 
It's just less than 2 1/4 inches or 56mm between the holes on the head badge if that helps..
 
Another clue..
I've managed to find the brand Sears on the tyres. It kind of looks like a Sears Elgin but they had curved seat post tubes in the pics I found. Are there any other Sears bikes that it could be??

The crank is definitely a Schwinn sweetheart isn't it? I couldn't find any Schwinn branding on it but I will take it to pieces tomorrow and see if there is a stamp on the crank shaft.

The decal does look like the Peugeot one, do you think that is a red hearing? I couldn't find any Peugeot bikes that looked like this.

Thanks again for your help solving this puzzle.
 
This bike is driving me crazy. The lock is centered on the fork, most Schwinns are off centered, but still looks Schwinn. Everything looks Schwinn besides the color and the headtube brazing.

Things to still look for: Info stamped on crank, AS or S on seat binder bolt, other places Schwinn stamped(bearings, chainring). Also pull the bearing cups on the headset. Do they look like a Schwinn locking cup?

There were oddities that came out of the Schwinn factory. Sometimes custom orders or employee bikes. Maybe an employee handbrazed this frame up, and painted at a later date (1963 first Coppertone).
 
I know, it's bugging me :lol: You've got a prewar frame with 60's colors, and a road bike decal on it, the pinstriping doesnt look factory so I'm going to guess this thing had a decent repaint along time ago. It almost looks like a murray made bike but the headtube looks too skinny and the murray made stuff usually had the ears on the dropout for a kickstand.... Mindboggling :eek:
 
I think the first Schwinn locking forks had the keyhole in the center. Don't know if this is one or not. Prewar locking forks didn't have the special locking cups. At least on the straight bar bikes they don't. I have a couple. The bolt sticks out farther than postwar and goes into the hole where one of the top tubes is welded. No tab is welded inside of head tube either. Prewar Schwinn cups should be stamped Schwinn. Gary
 
I stripped it down today and found a few more pieces to the puzzle.
"New Departure" & "Made in U.S.A." is stamped on the front wheel Hub and also on the rear wheel coaster brake arm.
A S and Co stamped on the crank.

Although it kind of looks like it there is definitely no locking nut on the forks.

Is there somewhere I can find information on badge sizes? I measured the holes where the badge once was and if this matches up with a badge it might help solve the riddle. It's just less than 2 1/4 inches or 56mm between the holes.

thanks again for your knowledge and advice on this..
 
I was asked by one of the moderators to take a look at this bike and give my opinion. My process it always to start with the frame and work my way out. I looked through my references for an identical match and was unable to find one but several details lead me to believe the frame can be attributed to Manton and Smith. M&S was one of the smallest volume American bicycle manufacturers; they were headquartered in Chicago and they produced bicycles between the mid 1930’s and the mid 1950’s. Unfortunately, very little is known or is easy to find out about their production and models that do turn up feature many design differences that suggest ongoing design changes over the full history of the company.

The hallmark of their frames is the hand welded tube joinery and that those welded beads look very much like modern TIG welds. That is the primary reason to attribute this frame to M&S, in addition the dogleg of the seat stays, the somewhat abrupt transitions in the curvature of the down tube, and the form of the rear dropouts are all features that show up in the M&S pattern book.

M&S bikes are often confused with Schwinn products, first because of similar geometries and secondly because the tube joins are external welded fillets. The joints do look generally similar but Schwinn frames employed the use of brazed filleted joints (before electro-forging) that were cleaned and rounded after being welded unlike the joints on M&S bikes that are physically smaller and left natural. Another area of confusion is that due to their small size, M&S relied more out outside suppliers for many of the parts that completed their bikes and some of those parts are similar or identical to parts supplied to the larger manufacturers leading to miss-identification.

Moving beyond the frame I believe the bike as it currently stands has to some degree been reconstituted aftermarket. The fork appears to be a 1936 Schwinn locking fork with the centered, non-angled key position. The frame is definitely newer than 1936 as is witnessed by the general form of its geometry. If the bike is indeed an M&S product the fork lock is doubly curious because the one feature M&S was best known for was their proprietary in-head Bike-Loc system for accomplishing the same result. Still, not all M&S frames had the Bike-Lok feature and this fork may have been added to the frame when it was refurbished.

The last point to comment on is that the decal, and the pin striping are the product of a refurbishment by an owner and that is also likely the source of the Coppertone finish on the frame and fork which as a color is more modern that the underlying frame.

As I noted at the start of this post, you are getting my opinion on the bike rather than a definitive response based on my finding an exact duplicate of this bike or a direct literature reference. It seems to split differences between several frames I did study for this answer with nothing coming up to dissuade me from posting. From what I could find it is also hard to place all of the features of this frame in a definite location along an M&S timeline. I would hazard that it is a late prewar or early postwar frame as the rear exit toe plates were changed to front dropouts in the late forties.
 
Thanks for your in depth reply and assessment rms37 and for your help cman, B607 and CCR

I guess we may never know for sure what it is but I will ask around a few other forums and see if anyone comes up with any more info.

Regardless it will be a great ride..
I will get a new chain tomorrow and take my new Rat for a ride.
I'm going to add a rear mud guard and a new saddle and put a Fat Frank tire on the rear in the coming weeks too. Still not sure about the handle bars.

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Um.... It looks a little like a schwinn but on the other hand it kinda doesnt... If its a schwinn id say its an old Schwinn DX... but i dont know...
 
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