Purist vs the Rat Rodder

[Uncle Stretch]

No matter what hobby you are into it seems to always boil down to the same two ways of thinking. The purist that wants something left as it is with as little modification as possible ,verses the rodder that wants the nostalgic look with the best of todays upgrades. Doing streetrods for 15 years or so we ran into the same argument. There could be a nice 1930 ford sedan. The purist would argue that it should be restored as original, 4 cly motor ,gravity flow gas tank,mechanical brakes,and straight bar steering. It cost the same to restore one original as to rod it. Once finished you had a nice car that was really hot ,steered like crap,went 40 mph, and took a block to stop. Now the rodder threw in a small block,mustang front end,air, power steering,and a really wild paint job with an interior to match. He produced a car that was fun to drive ,and comfortable. Now no street rodder in his right mind would cut up a dussenburg or something really history worthy to make a street rod. The bicycles are the same. I dont stretch frames that are in good shape, but by the same token I dont want a bike that the paint job is all cracked , there are dents in the fenders ,and most of the chrome has long since rusted off. I somehow think that the bikes people on this site create out of old rusty anythings brought back from the dead ,will last alot longer than the rusty piles of unrestored bikes that we have all seen at Hickory Hollow and other places . Ok I'm through. :lol:

 

[musclebikes]

Sounds to me like your talking about the arguements between my dad and I. No matter what it is cars or bikes we always get in the same arguement . My dads an old school musclecar guy. In his book if something came out this way, thats how you build it. If you want to get him mad start cutting up a perfectly good part for modifications. I love my dad, and hes my hero, but our fights always end up the same, by him saying ,"projects are ment to be perfect not ratty, you ratrodders are all worped, you guys are all the same!" :lol: Thats why he wont let me build a ratrod untill im long out of the house.

 

[bombshelterbikes]

Solid post, Uncle!
I myself have had that debate in my own head for the past few years. I originally began collecting and restoring bikes a few years ago, and got caught up in the "purist" frenzy that is represented by alot of the LONG time collectors in the hobby. Not to generalize or offend, but most of the "big fish" in the hobby are older guys that seem to feel that the collectible/rare bikes of the 1920's (or earlier) through the 1970's (the stingray crowd) were totally perfect time capsules of american engineering and design, and that even having one reproduction thing or repaint or even newer tires was an insult. I think that it has something to do with a bit of nostalga that what they lived with and had was simply a "better" america than now.

Suffice to say, I fell into that mode of thinking as well because it seemed so prevalent amongst those I was buying bikes from. That is part of why I have a big collection of original bikes with all the rare parts, etc.

BUT.......not long after I started seriously collecting, I began going to the Barrett Jackson Classic Car Auction. It is held every year in Scottsdale, AZ not far from my house. There I saw first hand, in the finest of examples, what artistic minds (young AND old!) can create out of "classic" vehicles every bit (if not ALOT more) representative of "american" manufacturing and design than even bikes. True customs, rat rods, resto-mods....lots with the most INSANE paint and detail....I was hooked on bringing that freedom and exciting creativity to my bike hobby.

My feeling is that the bike culture is a few years behind, due in part to the "old guard" that originally founded the hobby, but is catching up quickly. This site is a fine piece of evidence to that. I have also recently noticed that some of the established bike guys are starting to advertise bike parts, etc for sale as having appeal for "rat rods"....this from guys who only a couple of years ago were telling me that it was basically a tragedy to mess with any original part....better off just passing it on to another purist who would find a proper home for it.

Lastly, I think that as gas prices continue to climb people will be increasingly looking to bikes as not just a casual pasttime, but as an everyday, several-times-a-day part of life. That will bring continued interest in kustomization and rat rods, as people look to express their individuality in their ride....not unlike cars.

I agree.....if a SUBSTANTIALLY complete, GOOD condition rare/collectible bike falls into your lap, think twice about chopping it up beyond all recognition. But I feel VERY STRONGLY that there are a TON of awesome, unique frames, parts, accessories from the "golden age" out there just waiting to be reconfigured into something unique, creative, and ultimately long lasting. I can't wait to get a welder :wink: !!!

Oh yeah.....keep your headbadges ON! :lol:

 

[moparmayhem93]

Sounds to me like your talking about the arguements between my dad and I. No matter what it is cars or bikes we always get in the same arguement . My dads an old school musclecar guy. In his book if something came out this way, thats how you build it. If you want to get him mad start cutting up a perfectly good part for modifications. I love my dad, and hes my hero, but our fights always end up the same, by him saying ,"projects are ment to be perfect not ratty, you ratrodders are all worped, you guys are all the same!" Thats why he wont let me build a ratrod untill im long out of the house.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!

my dad is the EXACT same way
muscle car guy and all.....
man does it make me angry

 

[maddogrider]

This is my two cents if it came into the shop with a guys vision and you build that vision and his check clears then thats what it should be. As far as purists go why not make it better with todays technology stop faster go faster and look better. But i'm not a purrist. Just my thought dont hate me because my bike is beutiful :mrgreen:

 

[KOTA]

If you "own" it, you get to do what you want with it! If you want to restore it back to original, go ahead. If you want to melt it down to make a pail to carry manure, be my guest.................Actually, I need a new pail.

 

[Uncle Stretch]

Solid post, Uncle!
I myself have had that debate in my own head for the past few years. I originally began collecting and restoring bikes a few years ago, and got caught up in the "purist" frenzy that is represented by alot of the LONG time collectors in the hobby. Not to generalize or offend, but most of the "big fish" in the hobby are older guys that seem to feel that the collectible/rare bikes of the 1920's (or earlier) through the 1970's (the stingray crowd) were totally perfect time capsules of american engineering and design, and that even having one reproduction thing or repaint or even newer tires was an insult. I think that it has something to do with a bit of nostalga that what they lived with and had was simply a "better" america than now.

Suffice to say, I fell into that mode of thinking as well because it seemed so prevalent amongst those I was buying bikes from. That is part of why I have a big collection of original bikes with all the rare parts, etc.

BUT.......not long after I started seriously collecting, I began going to the Barrett Jackson Classic Car Auction. It is held every year in Scottsdale, AZ not far from my house. There I saw first hand, in the finest of examples, what artistic minds (young AND old!) can create out of "classic" vehicles every bit (if not ALOT more) representative of "american" manufacturing and design than even bikes. True customs, rat rods, resto-mods....lots with the most INSANE paint and detail....I was hooked on bringing that freedom and exciting creativity to my bike hobby.

My feeling is that the bike culture is a few years behind, due in part to the "old guard" that originally founded the hobby, but is catching up quickly. This site is a fine piece of evidence to that. I have also recently noticed that some of the established bike guys are starting to advertise bike parts, etc for sale as having appeal for "rat rods"....this from guys who only a couple of years ago were telling me that it was basically a tragedy to mess with any original part....better off just passing it on to another purist who would find a proper home for it.

Lastly, I think that as gas prices continue to climb people will be increasingly looking to bikes as not just a casual pasttime, but as an everyday, several-times-a-day part of life. That will bring continued interest in kustomization and rat rods, as people look to express their individuality in their ride....not unlike cars.

I agree.....if a SUBSTANTIALLY complete, GOOD condition rare/collectible bike falls into your lap, think twice about chopping it up beyond all recognition. But I feel VERY STRONGLY that there are a TON of awesome, unique frames, parts, accessories from the "golden age" out there just waiting to be reconfigured into something unique, creative, and ultimately long lasting. I can't wait to get a welder :wink: !!!

Oh yeah.....keep your headbadges ON! :lol:

Ok I may get the boot on this one but .... that was as well written as anything I have ever read. :mrgreen: I thought about it from several angles about what should be left and what should be redone, and I have come to the conclusion if we should leave everything with paint still visable ,then they should have gone in the Sistine Chapel with some steel wool and WD40 and shot some clear on Michaelangelo's work instead of bringing in specialist to repaint the parts that were fadeing. Hey if its good enough for mike's stuff then its good enough for Mr Elgin. :lol:

 

[CCR]

reminds me of my wifes Pontiac. had a 68 pontiac boneville 4 door, nothin special but it ran and it used to be her great aunt and uncles car, well it ended up being yard art due to the large amounts of gas it drank and got "the cancer" so we put it up for sale. a guy and his son stopped by and asked "how much for the junk car", i didnt get offended but told him $500. You would of thought i stabbed his mother in front of him !! He then told me that was too much and he was going to use it for a demolition derby car and he surely wouldnt pay $500 for a car he was going to "derby". I told him it was my wifes car so the price sticks unless she says otherwise. He then asked me to call her so we could stop wasting each others time, so i did and told my wife what the guy had said, asked her how much she would take and hung up. The guy then asked what she said. i told him, "she said its $500, if its goin in a demolition derby its $1000"

I sold it to the next guy, but i had a good laugh. (the next guy pieced it out for parts on a restoration)

 

[OUTLAW]

ccr, that one i liked.lol, very kool

Outlaw :mrgreen:

 

[GodHatesCleveland]

"Can't we all just get along?"

Hehe, no seriously. The only issue I have with the purists is that they're always convinced they're right.

Many builders found themselves here after getting the short end of the stick from the pursists. The funny thing is, the overwhelming majority of rat rodders, if not all of them, truly appreciate the workmanship, the engineering, and the style of vintage bikes. We understand how they represent the time they came from, we respect the society which built and rode them, and we truly dig the style these bikes have. That's probably why we spend so much time looking for the vintage bikes and why so many guys have such an outrageous quantity of them in their collection. We just want to take those bikes and add a little of our own flavor, our own personality, and benefit from the safety related advances that have been achieved in the past 50 years of bicycle manufacturing. It's the best of both worlds, in a manner of speaking.

Bikes do belong in a museum, just like cars, music, books, etc. But quite frankly, the rat rodders have a place in that history too.

 

[Uncle Stretch]

Probably the only thing that is hard to deal with is ,You spend unrealistic ammounts of money chasing old perfect nos parts to build a correct bike to the best of your ability. Do the best paint job exactly as it was 70 years ago ,and you take your perfectly restored bike out for a proud spin and all the neighbors yell "Hey look its Pee Wee Herman". Ride you custom ratrod and the say man that is awsome dude. Go figure.

 

[Hooch]

I am far from a purist but my thoughts on this are as such
I love restored bike I love original bikes and I love rat rod type bikes!
if i was to restore one I would start with a basket case because if you have to repaint one you might as well start from scratch
as a person who has sold and seen alot of bikes I also know I have only seen one or 2 restorations that would command the money as an original with some issues
case in point I have prewar dx I m building its a no brainer its a house painted bike that was advertised as lawn art I will slowly hunt down the correct parts

now this bike was on ebay it is an untouched original that isnt perfect but nice if it was mine I wouldnt touch it

 

[Multipass]

There's a lot of parallels between the collector bike world and the collector car world that's for sure! Not surprising when it's often the same people involved.

Myself, I see a distinction between purist and elitist. One can be a purist WITHOUT being elitist. When I was involved in the Mopar hobby, some of the guys I knew were 100% numbers matching purists when it came to their own cars. That was their thing, but they would get just as jazzed over a home-brewed mix n' match creation as the guy who bolted it together.

Then there was the elitist crowd. Like the owner of a mint Hemi Charger who was downright rude to me because he "couldn't be bothered with a 340 car". ( I had my Cuda 340 at the time )

The flip side of that are the guys who go out of their way to hack up a creampuff just to PO as many restorers as possible and prove how "hardcore" they are.

I like what GodHatesCleveland said, it sums up much of my feelings on the matter:

"The funny thing is, the overwhelming majority of rat rodders, if not all of them, truly appreciate the workmanship, the engineering, and the style of vintage bikes. We understand how they represent the time they came from, we respect the society which built and rode them, and we truly dig the style these bikes have.

Well said!

When you put aside the idealogical warfare and look at the craftsmanship involved, there's a lot of common ground between restos and rods.

And that's my 2 cents (FWIW)

-Mp

 

[xddorox]

Hmmmm, a purist rat rodder, wouldn't that be a paradox in itself? Discuss...

 

[CCR]

ultimately,
if it needs work - do it
if it doesnt - don't

(or if it aint broke, dont fix it :mrgreen: )

 

[sensor]

basically.....heres me.......
if its gonna need welded or something structural fixed....... it gets repaired and painted
if everything works and needs nothing welded it stays as is