Prewar straight bar ?

Discussion in 'BIKE I.D. & VALUATION QUESTIONS' started by Randall, Oct 27, 2019.

  1. Randall

    Randall

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    I just picked up a frame at the Long beach swapmeet. The holes for a headbadge are side to side. Any information about the make or year would be appreciated.
    Thanks Randall. 20191027_101300.jpg 20191027_101349.jpg 20191027_101331.jpg
     
  2. Wildcat

    Wildcat

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
    7,460
    Location:
    Mililani, Hawaii
    Looks like a Snyder that someone added a brake bridge to. Can you show the serial number, should be on the Bottom bracket.
     
    Dr. Tankenstein likes this.
  3. Randall

    Randall

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Strange I don't see any serial numbers at all. 20191027_124410.jpg 20191027_124833.jpg
     
  4. Wildcat

    Wildcat

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
    7,460
    Location:
    Mililani, Hawaii
    That is strange, Usually the numbers were stamped large and deep. I don't recognize the weld across the bottom either. Here's my 42 Snyder frame, looks a lot like yours:
    45096_4a5ffeefa77beed75823306a42fb7d2c - Copy.jpg
     
  5. Randall

    Randall

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Thanks Wildcat. Yes that does look the same. How the frame comes together at the crank.
     
  6. Phil Fink

    Phil Fink

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    413
    Location:
    Kalifornia / Toes Beach
    Agree it looks like a Snyder-built. Post-war bottom brackets often do have the fairly raw weld seams; not sure if it was a new process back then. Seem like it would be a lot easier to stamp a flat piece and then bend it round and weld-up the seem, versus stamping an already round tube piece.
    Also, in the later years, the stamping was fairly light, hard to see through any paint.

    But it has pre-war style chain tensioners(?). The joints at the rear fork and stays looks strange. Usually they look like flattened round tube peened around the triangle and then brazed in-place, with a visible step. Not Emory?
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
    Wildcat likes this.
  7. Randall

    Randall

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Thanks Phil. You say post war ?
    But it has rear facing dropouts and chain tensioners. No serial numbers under the paint that I can find. It does look a lot like Wildcats Snyder.
     
  8. RustyGold

    RustyGold

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley, Oregon
    I'm on board with the Snyder...probably immediately postwar.

    You should measure the seat tube...looks tall to me.
     
    Dizzle Problems and Wildcat like this.
  9. Randall

    Randall

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    I will measure the seat tube when I get home. Now I can build a Klunker without feeling guilty about keeping it original. I just need to find some chain tensioner screws.
    Thanks Rusty
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
    Wildcat likes this.
  10. Randall

    Randall

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Looks like 16" to the top bar. 20191029_214705.jpg
     
    Wildcat likes this.
  11. Wildcat

    Wildcat

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
    7,460
    Location:
    Mililani, Hawaii
    The measurement should be from the center of the BB where the crank arm would be, to the top of the bar.
    upload_2019-10-29_21-0-16.png
    It looks like mine, sometimes called a "Tallframe" at 20". That's 2 inches taller than the usual 18" cantilever frames.
    I also noticed the down tube is different from mine, the bends are seen in a couple places while mine is a gentle curve.
     
  12. RustyGold

    RustyGold

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley, Oregon
    Add ~1.125" to get to the center of the BB and you get around 18" to the top of the top tube, or a bit over 19" for the seat post height. Seems short of Wildcat's.

    The downtube has been causing me anxiety from the beginning. But, I see pics of some snyder/rollfast with a smooth 'S' transition, and others that seem to have this more notchy transition. I wonder if it is a difference in which plant they were made in?
     
  13. Randall

    Randall

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Wow. Thanks Rustygold and Wildcat. I wasn't sure how to measure the frame. How many different brands did Snyder make frames for ?
    Still seems strange that I have No serial number.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
    Wildcat and RustyGold like this.
  14. Wildcat

    Wildcat

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
    7,460
    Location:
    Mililani, Hawaii
    Snyder made Rollfast and Hawthorne (for Dept store Montgomery Wards). I think that's it. Emory bought all their stuff around 1975 I think.
    If your bike is one of those made just after the war, then they may have been producing as much as they could and skipped serial numbers just to get the bikes out faster. I would check the bb again and sand it to bare metal and see if anything appears.
     
  15. Randall

    Randall

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Thanks Wildcat. If I find any serial number I will post pictures.
     
  16. Phil Fink

    Phil Fink

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    413
    Location:
    Kalifornia / Toes Beach
    Not really a straight bar - which may have different meanings, depending on which bar or which maker. For Snyder built bikes, a straight bar may refer to late 1930's streamlined or semi-streamlined bikes with a straight down tube. In 1940 and '41 Snyder began offering frames with the "S" curve down tube for M. Ward, DP Harris (Rollfast), and others.
    I have seen pictures of more 1946 models now; they do have the same chain tensioner style yoke plates as in earlier years. Attached is a picture of a 1947 & '41 drop-out plates.
    47 MW Haw 1.JPG 41 MW Haw 1.JPG
    The 47 picture shows the stays stamped flat only at the ends with a transition bullet shape (streamlining?) versus a more gradual taper along a longer length of the tubes (41).
    Regarding frame sizes, I believe that there was essentially 1 nominal size motorbike frame per style and wheel size, for Snyder, in this period.
    A shorter style was the "sport motorbike" aka. 1936 "fast back" and the middle 1950's middleweight (yoke frame) dimensions and angles may have been off a bit (fractions?). However, with different retailers, some times they would advertise different numbers, or two sets of numbers for a frame size (especially the earlier double bar drop frame models). An exception may be the one year that Snyder experimented (we say) with a different seat post clamp - which affected the length of the seat tube.
    Another difference or similarity may be the seat post clamping area. Earlier Snyder motorbikes used a 5/8" seat post; later they switched to 27/32" or 0.84" with a removable stamped clamp.

    Another place to look for post-war Snyder serial numbers (actual sequence #) is about 6 inches below the seat post clamp; usually a letter, followed by 6 numbers; e.g., B 023,456?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
    RustyGold, Wildcat and MattiThundrrr like this.
  17. Randall

    Randall

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Thanks Phill Fink. You guys here on Rat Rod bikes are a wealth of information. I will look again for the serial number under the seat post clamp. Thanks again everyone.
    Randall
     
    Wildcat and RustyGold like this.
  18. Randall

    Randall

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Well there it is 20191113_054702.jpg just like Phil said. 6" below the seat clamp. I think it says B252971.
     

    Attached Files:

    Phil Fink likes this.
  19. RustyGold

    RustyGold

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley, Oregon
    I think that points to 1946.
     
  20. Randall

    Randall

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    1946. Cool. Now to paint and make a nice rider out if it. Are there any options on chain tensioner screws or do I need to find some originals ?
     
    RustyGold likes this.

Share This Page