Old School Sidecar (Now Trailer) build for Western Flyer

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Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

Wheel chair wheels and hubs. I picked up a pair of 20" for $20. Didnt find them on the internet, yellow pages and a couple calls got me to a local wheelchair boneyard. Also lets you use a 1/2 grade 8 bolt as the axle and have it cantilevered.

If you are going to let the bike tilt the front to back CG is less of an issue.
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

Very good work... reminds me of this thing I bought my niece...

toy_radioflyerretrorocket.jpg
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

Nice boat, looks like a small submarine.

Most rules for motorcycle sidecars don't apply, like pulling to the sidecar when accelerating with 1/2 hp.... Putting the wheel forward makes it hard to turn without engine assistance. You don't need to lean the bike to or from the sidecar.

No pivots, no suspension, that only makes it harder to pedal and steer and adds weight.

Here are the the dimensions (sort of) of my daily transport:

sidecar.jpg


Connections are near the headstock, on the seat clamp and on the rear axle. Sidecar uses a wheelchair hub. Bigger wheels give a smoother ride but otherwise the size does not affect handling. Toe-in for side wheel is about one degree on mine. Had to change the front hub, the 5/16" axle broke in the middle, no problems now with a 3/8" axle.
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

C.S. said:
Nice boat, looks like a small submarine.

Most rules for motorcycle sidecars don't apply, like pulling to the sidecar when accelerating with 1/2 hp.... Putting the wheel forward makes it hard to turn without engine assistance. You don't need to lean the bike to or from the sidecar.

No pivots, no suspension, that only makes it harder to pedal and steer and adds weight.

Here are the the dimensions (sort of) of my daily transport:

sidecar.jpg


Connections are near the headstock, on the seat clamp and on the rear axle. Sidecar uses a wheelchair hub. Bigger wheels give a smoother ride but otherwise the size does not affect handling. Toe-in for side wheel is about one degree on mine. Had to change the front hub, the 5/16" axle broke in the middle, no problems now with a 3/8" axle.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the geometry and comments on your sidecar. I will store that info away for future reference.
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

Thanks for the info C.S. Your diagram is pretty much what I had planned, although I may have to have the chair wheel slightly further forward to get better weight distribution, maybe about 6" forward of the rear axle. Don't mention engines mate, or you'll get me heading down that path! I've got a 50 year old engine that would be perfect for this bike!

C.S. said:
No pivots, no suspension, that only makes it harder to pedal and steer and adds weight.
Click to expand...

Yeah I take you point re: weight, although I'd like to pivot this one and see how it goes. I think it should make for a more comfortable ride because I'll be able to lean the bike. At this stage the suspension will be 3 car engine valve springs where the body mounts to the frame.

Cheers,

Dave
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

-- I think it should make for a more comfortable ride because I'll be able to lean the bike.--
No, it will be a lot of work dragging the sidecar wheel from one side to the other when leaning. Riding a sidecar is difficult enough without added tricks, same goes for building it.
Put your suspension between the ship and the sidecar frame, otherwise you get a very wobbly vehicle.

A) As soon as you attach a sidecar it stops being a bicycle.
B) You get all the suspension you need from the tires and saddle.

Just trying to help, I'll crawl back to my cave now.
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

C.S said:
it will be a lot of work dragging the sidecar wheel from one side to the other when leaning.
Click to expand...

Yep point taken. Although this will depend on how far from the ground the pivot point is. If my pivot is say 4 inches off the ground there shouldn't be more than an inch or so side to side movement under heavy cornering/leaning and very little movement while just cruising along. Is this too much to 'drag' the sidecar wheel while moving?

I know the pivot idea has some pitfalls, but I'm not ready to go with a rigid sidecar and give up the feeling of 'riding' the bike just yet. When it doesn't work you can retain the right to say; "Dave you're an idiot, I told you so" :D

C.S said:
Put your suspension between the ship and the sidecar frame, otherwise you get a very wobbly vehicle.

Just trying to help, I'll crawl back to my cave now.
Click to expand...


Ahahaha thanks for the advice mate, it's much appreciated. I actually plan to put a couple of car valve springs between the sidcar body and the sidecar frame just as you describe, no suspension on the sidecar wheel.

I pick up my wheel tomorrow then a 4 day weekend so hopefully I can find some time to get a bit more done.

Cheers,

Dave
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

Change of plan fellas. After much procrastination I've decided against the sidecar idea. The main reason was because I'm concerned about the potential for damaging my bike frame no matter how I mount the sidecar frame. The more I thought about it there would be a fair bit of stress on the mounting points and I can't just go and 'pick up' a new frame at the corner store if it splits due to fatigue.

So I've decided to mount the body on a trailer frame. I might end up making up a sidecar frame for another bike and welding it all rigid then I can transfer the body over, but for this bike I'll stick with the trailer idea.

Here's some updated photos:

Floor in the front cockpit area:
22.jpg


Here's the frame with an old 20" wheel on one side. I'll have to pick up a couple of new wheels this week.
23.jpg


This is going to be my tow bar on the bike:
28.jpg


My original tyres were 20 years old and were starting to crack up so I picked up these new ones:
24.jpg


This old box is just a fraction too small to hold a six pack of fine Western Australian beer :mrgreen: I rubber mounted it so as not to mark the paint on the rack.
25.jpg


I also took the family down to pick up 4 helmets. I've been looking for an old stadium motorcycle helmet but I ended up just picking up a new cheapy at the shop today. The wife pointed the camera at me today while the kids and I were mucking around so I put my CREEPY face on :mrgreen:
26.jpg


And here's what it looks like after I sanded the stickers off and painted a stripe down the middle to match the bike:
27.jpg


Fingers crossed I should have it rolling within a few days...

Cheers,

Dave
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

Almost forgot.... the rug-rats jumped in the other day so they could muck around. They both fit which is a good sign!

29.jpg
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

This thing will still be incredible as a trailer.
I love the photo of your girls in it.
Very very cool!!
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

You're doing good, man!
See if you can google up 'The Watsonian at Windsor' (Flickr), way cool original bike sidecar, and some mention of a link to other info on them.
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

G'Day Guys,

I managed to spend a couple of hours on the 'rocket ship' this afternoon.

I got these wheels at a swap meet this morning for $15, I'd prefer old school steel chrome wheels but at that price with tyres I can't complain. You can also see the lugs I welded to the frame for the body to bolt to:
31.jpg


And here's my pool fence tow bar fitted. It bolts to the rear axle and runs forward about 8 inches.
32.jpg


I welded a couple of lugs to the front of the tow bar and stretched some rubber hose over them. When weight is applied to the tow bar these will push up against the under side of the frame and keep the tow bar steady. It's all a bit ugly at the moment but should look OK once it's sand blasted and painted:
33.jpg


Here she is bolted to the frame:
34.jpg


Next job is to make the tow hitch and the seats, then paint her all up.

Cheers,

Dave
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

Very elegant lines, I like it!

Beautiful do see :wink:
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

That Red Zeppelin (cherry wood red that is) looks awesome as a trailer.
You can get plenty of ideas for a hitch from the trailer thread at bike forums.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.ph ... ler-thread.

Looking sharp man!!!!
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

Kingfish,

Thanks for the link, I'll check that out tonight when the dust settles (Read: kids go to bed).

Here's a couple of photos of recent progress. I've still got heaps to do but at least it's all hooked up!

35.jpg


36.jpg


37.jpg


38.jpg


Cheers,

Dave
 
Re: Old School Bicycle Sidecar Build for 1950 Western Flyer

WHOA!!!!!!! You totally made the right decision to go the trailer route instead of a sidecar. The sidecar would have hidden that beautiful bike.
This looks incredible!!!!!!! Kind of reminds me of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang!

From other trailer hitch designs that I have seen, just make sure that you have enough pivot on the vertical axis so that when you lean the bike it doesn't torque the hitch joint.

This build is AWESOME!!!!!!!!
 

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