Need help with parts

Discussion in 'KLUNKERS & MOUNTAIN BIKES' started by Falstaff, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. Falstaff

    Falstaff

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    I'm collecting parts to build a klunker/bmx type bike. I'll be using a worksman frame that I got from Chuck, and I have a nice set of araya freeride hoops I plan to use.

    My concerns are what hub should I use? I have a couple red bands, a mattatuck, and some Shimano something... I'll have to check on it.
    Are any of these good hubs to use for this type of build, or should I get something else?

    Also, should I go with a threadless headset or threaded? I'll be riding this one mostly on local BMX trails.

    And finally, for this type of build. Is a one piece or three piece BB preferred?
    I have an idea for both, but what do you all think is best?

    I'm not going to be riding off desert mesas or anything, but I want to build something tough.

    My knowledge on off road bikes is limited to the BMX bikes I had as a kid, which is why I'm here asking.
     
  2. squirreldh

    squirreldh

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    Bmx 3pc cranks are great if you plan on a single front ring, tend to be heavier than a similar mtb 3pc crank though. Either is recommended over a 1pc for offroad use due to strength.

    The hub of choice for klunking is the modded shimano coaster, there are threads and vids with info on that, basically replacing the axle with a stronger cromo one and modding the brake shoes for better lubrication on long descents.

    Headset choice comes down to whether you are using a threaded or threadless fork, threadless will be lighter and stronger.

    Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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  3. RustyGold

    RustyGold

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    I'll let the more knowledgeable suggest hubs...

    I have a couple opinions about headsets. First, is that pretty much more than anything else (aside from maybe, paint and finishes), the headset and neck set the era of the build for a bmx cruiser-type bike. If you want an old-school vibe, than threaded is the way to go.

    However, if your looking for a strong bike regardless of era, then I think you have to source your fork first, and that will dictate the headset. for 26", and larger, bmx cruisers, I find locating a good fork for a reasonable price the hardest task in the parts collecting. Most of what is out there in a bmx style fork isn't chromoly...what is chromoly is expensive...if it is vintage and chromoly, it is stupid expensive.
    I can speak some sacrilege here. Bang for the buck, a one-piece chromoly crankset is a great deal (redline big block, gt, poverty, etc). They are strong, cheap, and there is no chance a crank arm will come loose...you can get them in 175mm & 180mm fairly easily. However, they are heavy and most everyone you run into on the trails will judge you for not having a three-piece set up...you will instantly be regulated to department store bike status :doh:. I'm kind of a weight weenie (at 215lbs...its kind of an oxymoron :bigsmile:), so, I almost always go with a mid-price three piece chromoly crankset. I hate square taper with a passion (only four points of engagement), but anything else (from 8 spline to 48 spline) is plenty stout.

    Look forward to seeing your creation!
    Jason
     
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  4. Falstaff

    Falstaff

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    I'm planning a single ring, but now I'm curious about 3 piece cranks.
    I've seen some that are square taper, others that are hexagonal, and some that look like they were designed by the imperial forces from starwars.
    How do those designs factor into strength?

    And what do you mean by hub of choice for "linking"?
     
  5. Falstaff

    Falstaff

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    Well that answers my imperial forces question.

    I'm not to worried about what anyone thinks of my build, it's for me not them. I just want to make sure I use good parts, obviously not going to use a wallyworld hub on this. But I do like the old red bands, that's why I mentioned those.

    As far as weight goes, I'm a small guy. 6' 160#. I'm not worried about parts not holding me, but if I decide to attempt some childhood craziness. I don't want my bike blowing apart, I have enough scars... and these days, pain does hurt.
     
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  6. RustyGold

    RustyGold

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    Amen to that!

    Jason
     
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  7. squirreldh

    squirreldh

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    Sorry about that, typo, meant to say "Klunking"

    The older, '90s mtb 3pc cranks, were tapered spindle. Square looking bottom bracket spindle that gets fatter towards the center. Used as a press fit, was the bb design for many years. Unfortunately they tnd to loosen and wallow out if ridden loose turning them into scrap aluminum. If torqued correctly initially and checked periodically they can be a great setup.

    In the late 90s shimano developed a spline interface called octalink, a 8spline interface between crank and bottom bracket. Solved some issues tapered spindles have and was stiffer, but still had issues. Other companies came together and developed the Isis drive, race face, truvativ, etc, a similar splined setup to compete with shimanos octalink. Still a 3pc design, but wasnt around long.

    Developed a couple years later, shimano released Hollowtech 2, an external bottom bracket 2piece design. Bearings thread into the bb shell butare housed outside the frame in the bb cups. This made it stronger and lighter, as did permanently affixing the bottom bracket spindle to the drive side crankarm. Other companies have done similar, truvativ sram and race face have 2pc external bb offerings as well.

    Then stuff started getting crazy with press fit bottom brackets and such that wont work for your application so there is no need to go there. My recommendation is the more modern 2pc style, for weight and strength. If weight is of no concern then go bmx 3pc, strongest type available, but heavier than an mtb set up, including the american to euro bb adaptor required to run a mtb setup.



    Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk
     
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  8. us56456712

    us56456712

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    I have never had a problem Klunking with one piece cranks. I only weigh 155. I recently picked up 2 new Wald one piece cranks in a country hardware store's bargain bin for $1.00 each. I like how I can work on them with a monkey wrench. Easy to fix. Everyone thinks the latest is the best while sometimes an old design has a lot going for it. Some people think BMW hasn't kept up with the times because most of their six cylinder engines sold world wide are straight sixes. Old fashioned as it is not a V-6. A straight six has more torque, only one head to worry about, has better rotational balance, is a simpler design and can be made into a slant 6 to reduce height. In my opinion the old straight 6 is a better design. I think the one piece crank has a lot of practicality going for it. I like the old school look and don't mind that people think my 1940 Klunkers are junk bikes. Most single track riders never heard of a klunker and are not even interested in what I ride, they see the whole bike as bad, no matter what components are on it. I have never broken a threaded gooseneck or a chromo handlebar. All this new technology is not necessarily an upgrade, it is a solution looking for a problem. Hollow stuff can be made cheaper so they tell us it's better and stronger. I don't buy that it is necessary. I have never had a problem with square taper BB or cottered cranks either, they work fine if assembled and maintained right. I love my new Specialized mb with all the goodies but a Klunker has to have a certain old fashioned character. I don't care for new technology on a klunker. I get great joy out of riding single track on mostly 40s technology. Sometimes the 40s - 50s technology is not up to the task (my 1950s Bendix 2 speed manual blew up after 2 years of abuse). I broke a vintage All Pro frame klunking once but I had the seat post up too high and the seat post tube broke at the bottom of the seat post. I do use alloy rims.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
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  9. Falstaff

    Falstaff

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    This isn't going to be a mountain side klunker, only thing here called a mountain is a 200 foot chunk of sandstone the last ice age missed.
    I'll use it mostly as a cruiser, with an occasional trip to the trails the local kids made. I've got pretty much everything I plan to use, just have to finish my current project first.
     
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  10. Wildcat

    Wildcat

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    I think the 3 piece cranks have less flex.

    The redband coaster is my favorite, always been bulletproof for me.
     
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  11. Bicycle808

    Bicycle808

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    My thoughts:
    Cranks: 1 piece for economy and tradition. If you go 3 piece, go bmx. If you like to make your life complicated in pursuit of weaker parts, go euro-adaptor with a square-taper or newer crank/BB interface.... added bonus: it'll cost more, too! You've made a conscious decision to build a frame with an American BB shell for trail-riding; why not go with a crank designed for use with an American BB?

    Hubs: Coasters are fun. Morrows were top-ranked in the 70s offroad scene; contemporary klunker enthusiasts with a sentimental flair love the Bendix Red Band, which is a great (albeit sloppy) hub, but the practical move is to run a Shimano cb-e110. These hubs have their problems, too (clutch spring in particular is weak, and they don't modulate well... lots of drag...) but they're cheap, plentiful, current, and therefore, they are easy to find parts for. Fact: klunking kills coaster brakes, ad but true. A lot of quality high-temp grease and proper adjustment helps, but you WILL kill your coaster, especially the guts.... nothing is easier than swapping everything from a fresh hub into your wheel's hubshell. That gets expensive with Bendix, plus time-consuming, finding good deals on Bendix hubs with life left in'm.

    All that being said, my fave vintage coaster is the Fichtel&Sachs Komet Super.

    Threaded vs Threadless: Choose your fork first, then go from there. Be forewarned; Worksman uses its own weird-spec headset cups. PErsonally, I like to run a chromo 1.125" threadless mtb fork, like a Surly Instigator or 1x1 fork. To run that, you can keep the oem Worksman cups and cannibalize a loose-ball NECO or SUNLITE 1.125" threadless set, or get yourself a nice headset and send it off to @chattymatty or Mr.Tick to be turned down to fit the Worksman headtube. (I got a set from ChattyMatty; I have the exact specs on here somewhere, let me know if you go that route and i'll dig'm up...)

    If you go 1", go threaded. Save the oem cups but buy the VP 32.5mm headset from Porkchopbmx.com http://porkchopbmx.com/vp-h755-bmx-bicycle-headset-1-threaded-w-32-5mm-cups-chrome/ and use allllll the other parts from that, except the cups. Also, order up both sizes of crown race, b/c it seems like half these forks take 26.4 and the others take 27.0..... running 1" threadless isn't exactly impossible, but it presents a whole lot of drawbacks and absolutely no advantages, so i can't recommend it.

    The Worksman is a fine choice for klunking; the geometry is nice b/c it's really slack, with a nice high BB height. You'll love it. The main weakness is the puny rear dropouts, but the frames are so cheap and attainable, i don't even really care.

    Final thought: @us56456712 i agree that straight 6s are rad; i think the best is the Ford 300, but the main reason the world moved to v6 instead was front-drive. Running an I6 of decent displacement transversely presents packaging problems. And, with rear drivers, parts-sharing makes it a lot easier for manufacturers to just run the v6 longitudinally in the rwd car.... BMW doesn't make front drivers, so it's easy enough for them to keep the I6 going, but with the realities of the modern aut market, most everyone else has moved on, for the most part....
     
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  12. Falstaff

    Falstaff

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    I've been offered the machined parts, might go that route.

    Still trying to find a threadless BMX 26" fork, with disc mount.

    Going with the red band because I have half a dozen of them.

    Have a three piece american BB, so that's covered.



    And i agree, the 300 six is a favorite of mine. Still like the flathead V8 too, wish I could have gotten one of the flatty motorcycles honest charlie's built several years ago.
     
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  13. Bicycle808

    Bicycle808

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    Threadless 26" BMX fork? Not going to be easy. The bmx world still isn't disc-friendly, except some race bikes, and no body races 26s, plus BMX bikes made in the last 20 years tend to be rear-brake only or very cheap (or self-consciously retro...)... plus, half the "look" of a bmx fork is the ends, where the axle mounts.... they tend to stick out towards the front, and they're welded onto some fat tubes.... That looks awesome, but it makes aligning the disc tab with the axle problematic.

    If you get a straight-tined disc fork, you'll get a lot of the "look" right, and be able to run your disc. Something like this on a Worksman looks very moto, in my experience... http://surlybikes.com/parts/forks/1x1_fork [​IMG]

    HTH
     
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  14. RustyGold

    RustyGold

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    In the same vein as the surly forks above, are the Kona Project 2 forks. There is a variety of iterations of these forks with various combos of brake mounting and axle to crown lengths. If you get lucky you can find some disc brake versions with a 395mm a-c which could work nicely. However, like the Surly's, they kind of look bmx-ish, but not quite.

    [​IMG]

    Redline monocog forks come up from time to time as people swap them for suspension forks...however, since monocogs frames are suspension fork friendly, the fork a-c is usually pretty long for an older non-suspension corrected frames. There are plenty of 26" bmx forks that work great...however, none are cheap. The best deal out there is probably the red menace forks for $105. I just tried today to negotiate an additional 26" (continuation) champion fork to go with the frame and fork set I ordered, but they wouldn't budge off $194...for a set of forks...ugh.

    Jason
     
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  15. Wildcat

    Wildcat

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    The Ford 300 is my favorite, was used in the Brown UPS trucks for years. It has timing gears, no chain or belt. That's what my brother and I dropped in my truck, a rebuilt 300. Now it's his truck since I moved from the Mainland in 2014. Last of the F100's, 1983.
    f100 006 - Copy.JPG


    Good choice on the Bendix red band, with all the extras, you'll always be up and running.
     
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  16. RustyGold

    RustyGold

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    I have a '79 Ford F150 Supercab with a 300-6 in it. Aside from a stepside '65 Dodge, it was the only 1/2 ton truck I'd ever owned (all the rest were 3/4 & 1 tons). So, when it came time to re-roof my house, I went to the closest Home Depot (50+miles away) and bought 3-tab, felt, etc for 23 squares. When they asked if I wanted them to deliver it...I said no...just load it up in my truck. They looked at me like I was nuts...and I guess I was (I thought all trucks could be loaded down like my previous rigs). At the halfway point of the loading, when the front of the truck was pointed skyward I told them to stop...I would make two trips. Well, I did...and that was the demise of that 300-6. I'm told it is a pretty impressive feat to kill a 300, but, I think I'll stick with a large displacement V8 from here on out :grin:.

    Jason
     
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  17. squirreldh

    squirreldh

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    I love my inline 6! Been rocking a Jeep XJ for years now. Have 286k on mine, and hear they will run for over 4k if maintained.

    I also love my Kona project 2 fork, came on my humu humu, but isnt installed at the moment, and no it isnt for sale!

    For rigid 26" disc forks, the Surly 1×1 is a great fork. There are also many others. Check out the rigid mtb forks made for dirt jump and street use, basically modern 26" bmx bikes. DMR makes a decent one that is burly and not too pricey. Some are even available with 15mm and 20mm thru axles, but most here probably want a traditional dropout. And most if not all will be 1-1/8" diameter, so fitting to older 1" frames may take some creativity.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
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  18. us56456712

    us56456712

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    In high school in 1960 I had a 1949 Ford sedan. I also had a 1950 Ford coupe that I got in 1963. I paid a $100 for the sedan, which I bought from a widow at church and it had sat in a garage for 6 years and had low milage. The coupe I paid $15 for, which was pretty much the going price for old bombs back then. I got it from an airman at the local SAC base when he got transfered. Lots of low end torque. I beat these cars unmercifully, and blew a tranny and clutch on the sedan. Cost $15 at the junk yard for a used tranny with a trade in of the blown one. I finally ruined the coupe's V8 as oil and water became one. You could drive it short distances before it ran out of water and over heated. I carried extra water or had to stop by ditches to get water to fill it up with. I finally took it out in a field in the woods and abandoned it. Before I left I put a stick and some rocks on the accelerator and let it run wide open with water to see if the engine would blow up. It ran out of water and seized. After it cooled it started up again. I sold it in a week for $15, but by then people had stole the radiator out of it. The classmate I sold it to had a lot of flathead parts (he is still the local guy to go to I you are building up a flathead). He put a 53 Merc flathead V8 in it with hop up parts. It would burn out from a stop in second gear. He blew out the rear end once going 100 mph in second gear. When I had it it would only go 85 mph in second with clouds of smoke. A few years ago he built up a 1951 Ford sedan (frame off) and put a 53 Merc crank in it. He paid $1200 for the crank. He ended up selling it and bought a 60s Buick. I wish I still had the coupe. I sold the 49 in the summer of 1964 to another classmate. I don't recall what he paid me for it but it wasn't much as the gas tank was shot from dragging on the ground. I drove over a hump in the woods and ruptured the tank.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
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  19. Bicycle808

    Bicycle808

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    FWIW, in my opinion, suspension-corrected rigid forks asre nice on Worksman INBs. They might look a little funny, but they do very nicely with the geometry....Higher BB, slacker head angle....

    I also rock some Kona Project 2 forks. bikeman.com tends to sell'm pretty reliably. They're reallllly nice forks, but Surly forks are easier to come by; almost every bike shop plus every online retailer seems to have them. (QBP product...)
     
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  20. Falstaff

    Falstaff

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    I saw a magnesium suspension fork at my LBS, I don't know if it will work but I'm thinking about it.
    Next time I'm in there, I'll check it closer.
     
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