Have your say on rules for MBBO#05!

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LukeTheJoker

Moderator
Nov 17, 2012
21,379
18,192
Broken Hill, Australia
www.ratrodbikes.com
Well here it is, let us know what rules you want changed or updated.

Current rules from the one just finished are this:

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Rule 1- Must meet at least 2 of the following 3 criteria to be considered a Muscle Bike:

1: Rear tire larger than the front. (wider or taller or both.)
2: Banana seat.
3: Ape hanger bars.

You can of course have all three.

This allows other styles with "attitude" to enter as well, for example: a dragbike may have the wheels and seat but maybe not the apes, a chopper might have the wheels and apes but maybe not the seat, I am sure you get the idea...

Rule 2- Entire build must be done between 1st September 2015 and 1st January 2016, you are expected to start a build thread and post progress pics as you go, please don't just build away and expect to jump in at the last second with a finished bike, you can enter at any time before the deadline, but the build must not be finished when you enter.

For the exact finish time that will be used please click here:https://countingdownto.com/countdown/rrb-mbbo-04-finish-countdown-clock

Rule 3- If your builds rideability is questionable, (don't laugh, mine often are!) please provide a riding picture or video, just to quell that question from those that like to cause trouble.

Rule 4- There will be two classes for voting:

Class 1: SuperStock/Mild Custom, only minor frame changes are allowed (tidying the top of a seat pole, removing a brake bridge, that kind of thing.) but anything that bolts on, including forks, can be modified as much as you want.

Class 2: Super Modified, no holds barred, do what you want as long as it is ridable.

-Please add "Class 1" or "Class 2" at the start of your build thread title to keep things clear.

Rule 5- Multiple entries from one builder are allowed, but they must have their own build threads and be entered for voting separately.

Rule 6- We have dropped the "All welding must be done by the builder" rule, feel free to take advantage of it.

Guidelines:
Please don't start questioning whether someone's build is a "Muscle Bike", if it meets the rules, it is fine. :thumbsup:

Please keep comments light-hearted and positive, this is a fun build-off, if you start causing trouble you might just get removed... :comando:

Have fun builders!

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Some suggestions so far:

In hindsight, I think 3 classes might have helped, with original muscle bikes only competing in their own class.
My suggestion for this build off next year would be that in one class the bikes are required to use at least one 20" wheel and you have to run a banana seat and ape hangers.

The second class can be more open and include bikes with a looser interpretation of what a muscle bike is.

I think this would clear up any possible confusion/drama.
Good ideas there, and both with a similar theme, I will say this, please don't suggest more than two or three classes, we start ending up with only a few entrants in each if we get too many, and that can be disheartening...

Post up your ideas, have your say and let's all agree on something for next time!

Luke.
 
Aug 16, 2008
863
549
Spanish Fork, Utah
I really like the idea of an original muscle bike category. I also agree that there should be no more than 3 classes. You might even be able to add the original muscle bike frame requirement to class 1 and leave class 2 as is. I think you will get the most possible participation as long as one category remains completely open to interpretation. I think all the builds were great in their own way. "Pedro" to me is a great example of what class 2 should be about; having some design influence from the muscle car era but no real limitation other than that. Voting will decide which builds fit the theme better than limitations.

Just some early morning thoughts. I think what you have all done is great.
 
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LukeTheJoker

Moderator
Nov 17, 2012
21,379
18,192
Broken Hill, Australia
www.ratrodbikes.com
I really like the idea of an original muscle bike category. I also agree that there should be no more than 3 classes. You might even be able to add the original muscle bike frame requirement to class 1 and leave class 2 as is. I think you will get the most possible participation as long as one category remains completely open to interpretation. I think all the builds were great in their own way. "Pedro" to me is a great example of what class 2 should be about; having some design influence from the muscle car era but no real limitation other than that. Voting will decide which builds fit the theme better than limitations.

Just some early morning thoughts. I think what you have all done is great.
Pretty close to my thinking there too BB...

Class 1: Original muscle bike refurb/slight resto-mod.
Class 2: Open aside from the 2 out of 3 rule. (Apes, Banana, Larger rear tire)

That would even out the classes a bit too, but I am sure some would complain about being put in class 2 with a fairly standard bike against scratch builds. Can't keep everyone happy!

Luke.
 
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Jun 25, 2014
1,331
2,212
59
Springfield,MO.
I would add, make it up to the builder to decide if their modifications still fit Class 1 or move the build to Class 2. This would make the member some what responsible for how their bike is received in the class that they choose. It makes for less issues if the builder can decide where his/her bike fits best.
HEY! I could have been in 6th place in Class 2 this year......I've been ROBBED!!!!
 
Apr 18, 2015
6,955
10,426
central ohio
Three classes might be tricky, maybe even redundant. I can see class one as stock/no mod, and class two as light mod- anything goes.

Example would be something restored, even if paint was changed would be class one as long as the frame isn't modified at all. Sure, fender tabs and the like could be replaced, just not moved.

Class two could be something like stormtrooper, where one of the braces of the frame came out to make room for the rear tire. All the way up to anything goes, like Pedro.

Maybe it's just me but I don't mind my very mild custom being in the same class as a full frame build.

But if there are to be three classes they could be.

Class 1: full stock restoration

Class 2: stock/mild custom

Class 3: anything goes.

Class three would of course do away with the banana, apes, and different tire size rule. Unless specifically noted those rules must still be adhered to.

I also think we should leave out the welding rule, as we know not everyone has the tools to do their own welding and I think doing away with it brings more builders in.

Now that I've typed all of this I think my comment about three classes being redundant has no bearing. I've convinced myself I like three classes, just gotta get people to vote for all of them.
 
Aug 16, 2008
863
549
Spanish Fork, Utah
This is what is going on in my head. What if krates for example were ACTUALLY used for racing? What changes would be made to their design? This just might eliminate a banana seat, ape bars, and tires size, but in my mind would absolutely fit the definition of a muscle bike.
 
Jun 25, 2014
1,331
2,212
59
Springfield,MO.
Pretty close to my thinking there too BB...

Class 1: Original muscle bike refurb/slight resto-mod.
Class 2: Open aside from the 2 out of 3 rule. (Apes, Banana, Larger rear tire)

That would even out the classes a bit too, but I am sure some would complain about being put in class 2 with a fairly standard bike against scratch builds. Can't keep everyone happy!

Luke.
The more that I think about it, two classes are probably enough, I feel like you could throw out any other rules for Class 2. Just have Class 1 as refurb/resto-mod with bolt-ons like wheelie bars, lights, etc. And Class 2 as a sky's the limit, any thing goes, free for all. Again, letting the builder choose which class they fit best. I think that you might see some even crazier builds in Class 2 under this format! Trikes, lowriders, etc., You join this class and show everyone else what a "Muscle Bike" SHOULD be!! If you don't get the votes that you think you deserve...........................maybe it's you........... or you took crappy pictures............YEAH, that's it!
 
Jun 11, 2012
4,675
4,608
48
Visalia, CA
Please don't remove this. I am not being negative, but it is a conversation that must be had.

I believe we need to have a rule for site management concerning these build offs. Intentional or not, both class winners were used to promote the build off. X-Factor was used as the "poster bike" announcing the MBBO voting on the FB site. Why was that bike chosen over all others? Again, intentional or not, that most likely inuenced voting for people who otherwise wouldn't have know. About the contest. They saw the bike that liked them to the voting and voted for it. It won by a full 13 votes. I don't think an MBBO Class 1 has ever been won by that much.
Pedro was advertised in a custom bike magazine prior to voting. Pedro won by an unheard of 32 votes. Again, there is no direct evidence that the magazine article influenced voting, but the results for both classes look tainted to me because of this.

Suggestion: site staff will want to use bikes to advertise current build offs. So use previous participants or winners, not current contenders. True or not, using current participants gives the perception of choosing a favorite, pushing an agenda, and/or devaluing the work of all other build-off artists. I hope it is a egregious mistake that will not be repeated in the future.
 
Sep 19, 2012
308
693
Southern Ohio
I like Falstaff's 3 classifications but with a little difference. I've built and showed muscle cars now for about twenty five or so years and since that's where muscle bikes derived their name and I assume for most of the same reasons, I tend to lean that way for definitions. The biggest being muscle cars are recognized as being built between the years
1964 - 1973, I think the same can be said about muscle bikes. That's when banana seats, ape hangers, crazy colors/names, and slicks were used as the common denominator.

Class 1: Stock Restoration (Muscle Bike frames 64-73)
Class 2: Stock / Mild custom (Muscle Bike frames 64-73)
Class 3: Muscle Bike Interpretation (Open anything goes any bike frame or year)

I also think whether two or three class'es are decided on they should be on the same thread so that when you vote you have to submit all your votes at one time on one thread just separated by each class.
 
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Mar 26, 2012
966
2,185
Fairless Hills, PA
My suggestion:

Class I: RESTORED 16"-20"
As bought from the dealer
Dealer add on optioned parts allowed i.e., lights, horns, wheelie bars etc.
Class II: RESTORED 24"-26"
Dealer add on optioned parts allowed i.e., lights, horns, wheelie bars etc.
Class III: Modified 16"-26"
Part swapped bicycle parts allowed
Self made parts allowed
Aftermarket parts allowed
Class IV: SUPER MODIFIED
Any size wheels
Modified frame
Scratch built or aftermarket forks, frame or any other parts allowed

I have been the events coordinator of the SOUTHWEST MOPAR CLUB EL PASO, TX.
 
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Jun 11, 2012
4,675
4,608
48
Visalia, CA
I like that Roadwarrior except to say that there are no true 26" muscle bikes. They were made in 24", but that was it. That's why I've build a couple one-off's, because there was never a muscle bike big enough for me. I would just make Class 1: 16"-24".

A quick question about forks: a couple times "Drag forks" were entered, which were aftermarket. But since they can't be found there are now people who reproduce them. I would say "reproduction" parts should be allowed because of the rarity and expense of genuine parts. (Not just forks, but seats, bars, wheels, etc.)
 
May 14, 2012
1,490
490
Plainfield IL
Please don't remove this. I am not being negative, but it is a conversation that must be had.

I believe we need to have a rule for site management concerning these build offs. Intentional or not, both class winners were used to promote the build off. X-Factor was used as the "poster bike" announcing the MBBO voting on the FB site. Why was that bike chosen over all others? Again, intentional or not, that most likely inuenced voting for people who otherwise wouldn't have know. About the contest. They saw the bike that liked them to the voting and voted for it. It won by a full 13 votes. I don't think an MBBO Class 1 has ever been won by that much.
Pedro was advertised in a custom bike magazine prior to voting. Pedro won by an unheard of 32 votes. Again, there is no direct evidence that the magazine article influenced voting, but the results for both classes look tainted to me because of this.

Suggestion: site staff will want to use bikes to advertise current build offs. So use previous participants or winners, not current contenders. True or not, using current participants gives the perception of choosing a favorite, pushing an agenda, and/or devaluing the work of all other build-off artists. I hope it is a egregious mistake that will not be repeated in the future.

I don't post much round here anymore due to my opinion not being the same as a lot of people's. But I'm gonna speak up on this one.

To watch a build off with grown men building bikes and a the crying about this and that because you don't like how it's run, or someone's style of bike, it's just a build off and they're just bikes. Seriously though don't post your opinion and state it as fact when it's not true. Funny I've seen the winner get pointed out multiple times for multiple reasons. The build off is over and it's still going on. They're just bikes and your making your selfs look like a 3 year old that can't have the ice cream they want, stomping feet and all.
 
Jun 11, 2012
4,675
4,608
48
Visalia, CA
You can name call all you like, but the fact of the matter is that when you run contests, then people take them seriously. Especially when people put a lot of time, effort and money into their entries. All I'm asking is consideration to fairness and a balanced field.

And at no time did I state anything as fact. I said that the two instances could have given perceptions. That doesn't equate to me claiming any sort of fact.

And I'll just ignore your personal attack. This is a discussion about the rules, not a place for you to vent your unfounded animosity towards me or anyone else.
 
Apr 18, 2015
6,955
10,426
central ohio
It is what it is.
Yes the build off is over, so is voting. Voting went different than I thought it would, but that's cool. People like what people like.
Obviously interpretation is individual.
Could people have been swayed differently if long shot had been in a magazine, or in violet featured? Possibly, but we'll never know. It is what it is.

On a lighter side, maybe it was the dark side? Anyway, thanks to the 19 starwars geeks on the site that voted for stormtrooper. Maybe I'll do a star trek bike one day.
 
May 23, 2010
245
267
ohio
www.arcanation.com
I don't post much round here anymore due to my opinion not being the same as a lot of people's. But I'm gonna speak up on this one.

To watch a build off with grown men building bikes and a the crying about this and that because you don't like how it's run, or someone's style of bike, it's just a build off and they're just bikes. Seriously though don't post your opinion and state it as fact when it's not true. Funny I've seen the winner get pointed out multiple times for multiple reasons. The build off is over and it's still going on. They're just bikes and your making your selfs look like a 3 year old that can't have the ice cream they want, stomping feet and all.
Say it!!!

Sent from my LG-LS995 using Tapatalk
 
Jun 11, 2012
4,675
4,608
48
Visalia, CA
Lol. Don't state opinions as fact then. The winners weren't the only ones shown on fb or ig.
Fantastic justification for insults and name calling. Not to mention the FACT that you completely missed the point made. Or maybe you didn't, and are just attempting to direct attention away from it because you don't agree. Either way, if insults are the only way you know how to make a post, then I understand why you don't post on the site much.
 
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