BUILD OFF VOTING IS RIGGED!!!

The Renaissance Man

__CERTIFIED DIVER__ (Open Water & Open Dumpster)
Pro Member
Nov 24, 2012
8,072
19,185
The Tropics of Alabama
OK, that was a tabloid title just to get your attention.:D

But now that your here, let's talk build off voting. With the outcome being what it is, I'm in a unique position to point out my thoughts on the subject without it sounding like sour grapes. Why would I complain, right? Well I'm not complaining.

Every year that I have participated in these competitions it seems that the subject usually comes up in some form or fashion about the pros and cons of what ever the voting rules are. There have been several adjustments over the past few years but it never has and never will satisfy everyone. Every year there are also plenty of suggestions about how to improve the voting one way or another. I'm certain that there will be more suggestions thrown out there even in this thread! But I'm not sure that there can ever be a right way to do this.

Here are my thoughts.:soapbox:

Any competition that is scored by opinion is debatable, period. It doesn't matter if there are unlimited votes, ten votes, three votes or one vote, it's still a matter of opinion. I have several friends that compete in BBQ competitions. I have literally seen them go from winning one year to placing last the next year with the same recipe! How can that be? It can be because it is the opinion of the judges. It would be a safe bet to say that even if it were the same judges they might not choose the same way a year later. There are endless variables that could change there opinion on any given day.

Using the Olympics as an example. If you've watched any of the judged events, there are plenty real stand out performances, but what if the events were judged by and voted on by everyone in the audience? It's possible that someone could win the gold metal just because the majority of the people in the audience where from the same country or maybe the most talented athlete could actually finish last because that athlete has a bad attitude and people don't want to vote for them because they don't like them. The point is that it's subjective when it's based on opinion.

For what ever the reasons were, I'm thrilled that the majority of people who voted chose my bike. But does that mean that I had the best bike? The short answer is no. Does that mean that my bike would win in front of any audience? Again, no. If you go to RatRodBikes Instagram page and use the 'likes' as a metric for voting, out of the few bikes that have been posted from the build off so far, the bike that finished in seventh place in this forum would be the run away victor at this time. And that could change again as more bikes are posted. It's the opinion of that particular group of people that view the bikes on that platform.

So, is there a better way to do this? Probably not. Unless you cross a finish line first, jump the highest, or score the most goals, judging bikes (or anything else for that matter) can never be an exact science.
 
Apr 14, 2015
2,616
4,791
48
Well said sir I like your description .We all have an option & depending on the crowd your hanging with your opinion will most likely change . There is also the Theory of pitching votes so you have a better chance of winning or only voting for your self . Who knows what people think . Like you said you will never please everyone. At the end of the day this is all in good fun but are competitive natural dose get the best of us most of the time .The one thing I do know is , Opinions are like arm pits some just stink worse then others regardless another great build off with some top notch builders with some one of a kind awesome bikes . Built not bought !!!! Until we meet again next year .


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Last edited:
May 18, 2016
261
718
52
Speedway, Indiana
OK, that was a tabloid title just to get your attention.:D

But now that your here, let's talk build off voting. With the outcome being what it is, I'm in a unique position to point out my thoughts on the subject without it sounding like sour grapes. Why would I complain, right? Well I'm not complaining.

Every year that I have participated in these competitions it seems that the subject usually comes up in some form or fashion about the pros and cons of what ever the voting rules are. There have been several adjustments over the past few years but it never has and never will satisfy everyone. Every year there are also plenty of suggestions about how to improve the voting one way or another. I'm certain that there will be more suggestions thrown out there even in this thread! But I'm not sure that there can ever be a right way to do this.

Here are my thoughts.:soapbox:

Any competition that is scored by opinion is debatable, period. It doesn't matter if there are unlimited votes, ten votes, three votes or one vote, it's still a matter of opinion. I have several friends that compete in BBQ competitions. I have literally seen them go from winning one year to placing last the next year with the same recipe! How can that be? It can be because it is the opinion of the judges. It would be a safe bet to say that even if it were the same judges they might not choose the same way a year later. There are endless variables that could change there opinion on any given day.

Using the Olympics as an example. If you've watched any of the judged events, there are plenty real stand out performances, but what if the events were judged by and voted on by everyone in the audience? It's possible that someone could win the gold metal just because the majority of the people in the audience where from the same country or maybe the most talented athlete could actually finish last because that athlete has a bad attitude and people don't want to vote for them because they don't like them. The point is that it's subjective when it's based on opinion.

For what ever the reasons were, I'm thrilled that the majority of people who voted chose my bike. But does that mean that I had the best bike? The short answer is no. Does that mean that my bike would win in front of any audience? Again, no. If you go to RatRodBikes Instagram page and use the 'likes' as a metric for voting, out of the few bikes that have been posted from the build off so far, the bike that finished in seventh place in this forum would be the run away victor at this time. And that could change again as more bikes are posted. It's the opinion of that particular group of people that view the bikes on that platform.

So, is there a better way to do this? Probably not. Unless you cross a finish line first, jump the highest, or score the most goals, judging bikes (or anything else for that matter) can never be an exact science.
Amen brother! Wonderfully said and sentiments shared.


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Nov 1, 2013
1,019
1,293
Studio City, CA
www.gigmata.com
I agree with Jim on this tough matter. Since there is a lot of talent here, it is difficult to choose. When I was in high school, I participated in a jobs training program for under-privileged kids. It was held at a high school and ran the entire summer. I worked my butt off in the various disciplines and brought in innovation and high quality work. Each of the teacher/mentors were very impressed with me.

At the end of the program there was an awards ceremony. Since they had been openly praising me I though I might win one of the categories - especially one of the manufacturing categories because they changed the process based on my suggestions(still bitter for some reason) and I didn't. They gave me the final award of "Runner-up In All Areas." I took the award but was hugely disappointed (it has been in some sort of box the entire time.) My friend Wally, who flipped burgers and breakfasts with me at Hardee's," explained that I had actually one the whole thing. At first, I didn't get what he was saying out of my butt-hurt pride. He explained everyone else that won only won in a single category but none of them ever placed second. I had the highest overall score. We were kids, they couldn't just let me win everything (they could've if it was appropriate) so unlike Michael Phelps I had a chest covered in silver medals.

All of that to say is that since we are lucky to have more than one vote we may want to entertain categories. The job program had it right. It was broken up into disciplines. Maybe we could have categories such as: "Most Innovative," "Best Built, "The One You'd Like To Have," and something on the order of an "Envy Award" for the one we wish we'd built. One bike could win all of these or there may be a mix of winners. The bike with the most votes wins "Best In Show." My suggestion is one vote for category and each bike is automatically entered for each and as always, the voters pick the winners and not the electoral college.

Gig


- by Gigmata
 
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Sep 7, 2014
3,172
6,166
52
Columbus OH
Votes Schmoats....I wouldn't trade my bike for anything as I'm sure most builders wouldn't. We all kinda do our own thing. I know $200 derailleurs and $100 shifters......(ish:D)...aren't the normal cup of grool around here but that's what I like to play with.

It's fun doing the whole deal together. The votes are always nice to get but it's a very small part of the whole experience. With unlimited votes I tend to vote for bikes I like and also threads + personalities I like.

I think the voters got it right though. The Dexoluxe and the build thread for it are definitely winners. (This is a great after vote/monday morning quarterback thread too..:21:)

I think the main thing the build off+ voting does is gives you incentive to build a better bike than you would on your own.

I always wondered if there are bikes that get lots of votes that haven't been posted on any other form of social media?
 
May 18, 2016
261
718
52
Speedway, Indiana
I think the main thing the build off+ voting does is gives you incentive to build a better bike than you would on your own.
100% agree - Bourbon & Blue getting built was the best award / vote I could have ever received! The Build-off process made me think carefully about choices and decisions and kept me doing so throughout the build. I KNOW I ended up with a better result because of this. The feedback and thoughts of other builders during the process was awesome as well.

I think it's amazing that other people, and especially the other builders, liked the direction that I took her, but, being able to hop on B&B and cruise to Main Street with my honey on her Firestone is simply the best.


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Sep 7, 2014
3,172
6,166
52
Columbus OH
My 'RACELINER' won two years ago without the benefit of social media.
That's awesome!...and makes sense...another great piece that one. I loved your bike last year and was surprised that it didn't get more votes but functionality seems to clash with visual appeal for some reason. Would be nice to be able to bridge that gap.
 
Jan 2, 2012
3,171
4,111
Mykonos,GREECE
Nothing wrong with the voting system.
Whats missing are more builders and builders who finish.o_O:39:Oh wait thats me...:speechless::rofl:
Forget that last bit,just more builders.
I like the prize system.How builders pitch in and place prizes for unique display of craftsmanship in any way shape or form.Some are funny and interesting.Would like to see more prizes involved.:D
It's all in the name of fun...:nod:
 
I don't care if I win or lose or care who wins. It's the fun of seeing what everyone can do with a bike in a given time, best efforts etc. Amazing variety and quality in this build off. I entered because I had this vision for four years but never did it. I decided I needed to enter and that would force me to finish. It was tough getting it done in the deadline but I did it. I wanted to ride it in our annual August classic cruiser ride and I got to do that. Not everyone has the same reason for participating. I needed the time constraint pressure to keep me focused so it would get done.
 
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