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Why have votes at all if you’re ready to vote for, quote, the worst bike?

furyus
 
You vote your way, man. Would it surprise you that the quality of the thread, and even the builder themselves, have an influence on my vote? There has been a bike I liked, right up my alley, almost a bike I would make, that didn't get a vote because the builder was a jerk.
 
I vote based on technical prowess, would I ride it, is it cool, did the builder get outside their own box, thread engagement, and a few other things. Some bikes don't check any boxes for me, but many do. I have a hard time narrowing it down to 10 each time
 
Ranked choice voting creates competition within the competition, kind of like side bets at the horse track. Take ranking away and it obviates that level of competition. It really has nothing much to do with trophies but more so with the spirit of friendly competition.
 
RustyGold said:
People that want to vote once, can... people that want to vote for 90% of the entries, can. So why change the rule?
Click to expand...

Adds some intrigue. Everyone says that can't decide when they have unlimited voting and they base their votes on much more than what would be the technically best build. Vote for the one you dig for all the right reasons and let the chips fall. Like I wrote earlier, you might be surprised at the winner.

furyus
 
You've got a hundred bikes in front of you and you can take one home to meet mother.

furyus
 
RustyGold said:
I don't see any 'intrigue' added...I see a small, predictable, group that gets votes, and a whole lot of zeros. 1-2-3-4 ... and a 46 way tie for 50th :confused:.

My Mom is no longer around... I'll just take the top 33 home to meet the rest of the jezebel's.
Click to expand...
45 way tie for 49th. 4 wavy mirrors ain't my idea of a House o' Fun.
 
furyus said:
You've got a hundred bikes in front of you and you can take one home to meet mother.

furyus
Click to expand...
Chances are, it wouldn't be a rat rod. She'd want something nice from Sprawlmart. Is "mom approved" really how you dole out that one vote? And why would I only ever introduced one special friend to mom?
You just changed your metaphor, not your argument.
 
Sounds like my mom is cooler than yours, Matti.

furyus
 
I bet One Vote would come in dead last if you setup a single vote poll right now that had the choices of One Vote, Three Votes, or Unlimited Votes. Just my opinion and hunch.

I also have the feeling of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
 
I second that there are things to appreciate in more than one bike. I'm not competitive at all, I do build-offs because it pushes me to actually finish something and maybe people can learn from some of my odd ideas (as poorly documented as they tend to be since I forget to take photos when I get on a roll) or be inspired in their own builds. One of the exercises we did in design school was to come up with ridiculous ideas for things because they would often lead to something clever. As an example of another benefit was my roommate and good friend, who was a truly brilliant designer, said that seeing what I was doing made him improve immensely by getting ideas for his own stuff, not in a theft sort-of-way, but as a launching pad for taking a different direction—likely completely unrelated to what I was doing so that nobody would guess what he came up with had anything to do with what I did. When he told me this, I was shocked and I had to tell him that he did the same for me. It's not about participation trophies, it's about encouraging participation, whatever the level of builder might be. Plus, I like the idea of a ranking further down than top 3 or however few would catch almost all the votes. A lot of racing fans complain that F1 is boring because the top two finishers are almost predetermined, but by only looking at the podium, they miss some great competition in the middle of the pack. If the BOs were just to be held with 5 top-notch participants, there would be a lot of interesting stuff that would be missed. Sure, some ordinary things, too, but I'd rather see people creating than not and who knows who starts out on something simple but might come back with something great next time, buoyed by the experience of being in an encouraging group that treat them as a peer even if their game isn't at that level. In that sense, it could be the opposite of the participation trophy where, instead of saying, "that was great (when it wasn't) and you're good enough, little Timmy with your finger in your nose in the outfield most of the season" it gets someone to see what building something better takes and might drive them to push themselves. Certain sects of bicycling have well-earned reputations for exclusionary attitudes and all that does is discourage more people from taking up bicycling and we're all safer on the road with more cyclists. Though this is probably pushing the point to too much of an extreme, I wouldn't want the same thing to happen here with building.

I will say, though, that there can be too many participants in that it can be difficult to follow them all or sort through to find the ones to choose to follow in the first place. Still, while the Paradox of Choice argues against it, I'd rather have more choice than less.
 
kingfish254 said:
I bet One Vote would come in dead last if you setup a single vote poll right now that had the choices of One Vote, Three Votes, or Unlimited Votes. Just my opinion and hunch.

I also have the feeling of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
Click to expand...

Undoubtedly. Just something I think would be interesting, but not a must have. Ultimately, Steve has the final say on all of this and I'm certainly not lobbying him for the change. Just discussing it here in the pre-game show. I feel a little stronger about a class for motorized bikes with as big as e-bikes have become, but that's no hill to die on either.

furyus
 
Duchess said:
I second that there are things to appreciate in more than one bike. I'm not competitive at all, I do build-offs because it pushes me to actually finish something and maybe people can learn from some of my odd ideas (as poorly documented as they tend to be since I forget to take photos when I get on a roll) or be inspired in their own builds. One of the exercises we did in design school was to come up with ridiculous ideas for things because they would often lead to something clever. As an example of another benefit was my roommate and good friend, who was a truly brilliant designer, said that seeing what I was doing made him improve immensely by getting ideas for his own stuff, not in a theft sort-of-way, but as a launching pad for taking a different direction—likely completely unrelated to what I was doing so that nobody would guess what he came up with had anything to do with what I did. When he told me this, I was shocked and I had to tell him that he did the same for me. It's not about participation trophies, it's about encouraging participation, whatever the level of builder might be. Plus, I like the idea of a ranking further down than top 3 or however few would catch almost all the votes. A lot of racing fans complain that F1 is boring because the top two finishers are almost predetermined, but by only looking at the podium, they miss some great competition in the middle of the pack. If the BOs were just to be held with 5 top-notch participants, there would be a lot of interesting stuff that would be missed. Sure, some ordinary things, too, but I'd rather see people creating than not and who knows who starts out on something simple but might come back with something great next time, buoyed by the experience of being in an encouraging group that treat them as a peer even if their game isn't at that level. In that sense, it could be the opposite of the participation trophy where, instead of saying, "that was great (when it wasn't) and you're good enough, little Timmy with your finger in your nose in the outfield most of the season" it gets someone to see what building something better takes and might drive them to push themselves. Certain sects of bicycling have well-earned reputations for exclusionary attitudes and all that does is discourage more people from taking up bicycling and we're all safer on the road with more cyclists. Though this is probably pushing the point to too much of an extreme, I wouldn't want the same thing to happen here with building.

I will say, though, that there can be too many participants in that it can be difficult to follow them all or sort through to find the ones to choose to follow in the first place. Still, while the Paradox of Choice argues against it, I'd rather have more choice than less.
Click to expand...

You wrapped up a typical RRB Build Off pretty well right there. We all thrive and feed of of the collective creativity that is displayed during the event. I feel that everyone that participates can't help but build something better than they would have in the vacuum of their own garage. I know I do. Sometimes it's a simple comment, or an exciting twist in another build, but so many moments in the build off will trigger another cog in your head to turn.
 
"... but so many moments in the build off will trigger another cog in your head to turn. " ~KF
Not only are you spot on, @kingfish254 , but you worked in a bike pun as well!

Personally, I'm looking forward to the build off and the com-Rat Rod-ery that it inspires.
 

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