Early Track Bike?

Discussion in 'BIKE I.D. & VALUATION QUESTIONS' started by us56456712, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. us56456712

    us56456712

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    Lake Superior Shore, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    What brand of bike is this? Anyone have an idea? There is no head badge. It's a skip tooth with wood wheels. I think it might be an early American track bike, but the brand has me stumped. 32 spoke hole front, 36 rear. s-l1600.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  2. RustyGold

    RustyGold

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,248
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley, Oregon
    Looks like a Schwinn (dropouts, post binder, chainring)...but, that isn't my era of interest for the most part.
     
  3. deorman

    deorman

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    10,463
    Location:
    Fairfax, VA
    You'll need a bowler and bow tie if your going to ride that.
     
    us56456712 likes this.
  4. us56456712

    us56456712

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    Lake Superior Shore, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    I thought Schwinn also, so far I'm kinda stumped. Luxlow has a Schwinn track bike from the 1930s, but the seat stays are curved, like a 1940 DX. This one has straight seat stays, but it's older than 1930s. The Luxlow track bike has the typical American one piece crank and the one above has the crank that's worked on from the bottom of the bottom bracket.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  5. us56456712

    us56456712

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    Lake Superior Shore, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    Vélodrome_Parc_des_Princes.jpg
     
    RustyGold likes this.
  6. deorman

    deorman

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    10,463
    Location:
    Fairfax, VA
    [​IMG] :bigsmile:
     
    us56456712 and ferdy like this.
  7. Dizzle Problems

    Dizzle Problems

    Joined:
    May 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,078
    Have you tried asking on the cabe? There’s a lot of folks over there that are into this style/era.
     
    us56456712 likes this.
  8. us56456712

    us56456712

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    Lake Superior Shore, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    I don't belong to the CABE.
     
  9. RustyGold

    RustyGold

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,248
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley, Oregon
    I was convincing myself it was a Schwinn...but, I just noticed a flaw. If that sweetheart is original to the bike, then it probably isn't schwinn. I believe schwinn has the drive pin hole on the triangle, that one looks to have it on the heart.

    I think there is at least a couple different companies that are that way...Snyder being one, I believe.

    Honestly, I don't have the eye for bikes pre- mid '30s or so. I have the same issue with cars...'60s I can nail IDs, '50s pretty good, '40s okay...'30s and older, I don't have the eye/knowledge to easily tell them apart (I can usually determine between Ford and 'other'...but that's about it :grin:).
     
    us56456712 likes this.
  10. RustyGold

    RustyGold

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,248
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley, Oregon
    ...thinking about it, there may not be a connection to age...as I can tell hardly any diamond frame track/road bikes apart :bigsmile:.
     
    us56456712 likes this.
  11. us56456712

    us56456712

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    Lake Superior Shore, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    If the wood wheels are original, then it is probably a pre a1930 American bike, and maybe a track bike. The front wheel appears closer to the down tube than on path racers or street bikes of this era. I can't find any net pictures of a Schwinn between 1895 and 1917 and from 1917 to about 1930. There seems to be a lot of missing Schwinn documentation. Then again, there was a huge mail order and LBS availability of custom parts. Plus, as stuff wore out discards and traded parts were used. The fork is forged, but doesn't look anything like a later Schwinn or a more ornate crown like a 1930s Colson. The crown is not rounded but kind of squared off.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  12. RustyGold

    RustyGold

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,248
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley, Oregon
    I saw the '17 and '33 Schwinn catalog entries. The '17 has wood rims, and appears to have a sweetheart chainring...and to my non-discriminating eyes, looks like yours. The '33 states chromium plated rims...so, nope.

    I haven't stumbled across a Snyder built '20s (or early '30s), the oughts and teens Snyders have a squared shoulder fork, however.

    Shelby had sweetheart chainrings with drive pins in the heart as well...but, I don't think I've seen a wood rimmed Shelby before.
     
    us56456712 likes this.
  13. us56456712

    us56456712

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    Lake Superior Shore, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    It has sloped squared fork shoulder so perhaps a Snyder? thanks
     
    RustyGold likes this.
  14. macncheese

    macncheese

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    562
    Location:
    Asbury Park, NJ
    I've never seen an angled dropout like that on a track bike. Was there a time period where that was common? My armless Miami has dropouts in that configuration.
     
    us56456712 likes this.
  15. us56456712

    us56456712

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    Lake Superior Shore, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    It's hard to say. There is almost no documentation of early American Track bikes even though it was the most popular spectator sport from the 1890s to around 1920. American champs got the same income as Babe Ruth at his prime. American track racing had the same amount of spectators as the NBA today. Al Capone was a fan and did a lot of betting on the races. Despite this popularity almost nothing remains. All the original tracks are torn down or burned down. Some 1890s American track bikes had big 3/4 semi circle dropouts with what looks like no chain adjustment. Most early net pictures are of European track bikes and they do have straight drop outs. Some of the early (1910s) American catalogues had racing bikes with straight drops outs. Most vintage photographs of early American track bikes don't show the dropouts as a foot is in the was or too indistinct of too far away. There is one photograph of an American racer on the net pedaling on a track around 1910 and that bike does have angled dropouts. I don't think angled dropouts were common on track bikes but so many manufactures made them and they weren't very sophisticated in the early days, tall, front tire close to the down tube (not as close as modern track bikes) and a short cockpit. This frame has the front wheel close. Other bikes of this era were very stretched out to accommodate the bad roads. It may or may not be a track frame but I think it was raced on the track. Hard to say, some kid may have made a bike out of miscellaneous parts to look like a track bike? Its got real cool wood grips.
     
  16. us56456712

    us56456712

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    Lake Superior Shore, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    I got the front tire off. I guess its sort of a sew up. The whole tire is molded around an inner tube and glued to the wood rim. The glue was dried out so it came off easily. 1547665927857-1664738249.jpg 1547665927857-1664738249.jpg
     
  17. RustyGold

    RustyGold

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,248
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley, Oregon
    Remotely close on the fork crown?
    20190115_135225.jpg
    Its a Davis built bike, there are a lot of similarities...seat tube angle & dropouts...the head tube angle seems different.

    Worth a shot...
    20190116_055515.jpg
    Jason
     
    us56456712 likes this.
  18. us56456712

    us56456712

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    Lake Superior Shore, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    My fork crown is different, diamond cut sorta. I'll try and post a picture later. I dismantled the bike and it's got a missing ball in the crown and I can't find my tin of bearings. The crank race on the drive side is cracked, which causes my tool to slip when I try and remove it. It even slips in my vice. I may take it to the LBS to see if they can work it off where it is warm. Or I may weld the crack shut and then try to get it off. I've never seen a cracked bearing race. The wheels look good but need re spoking. It was repainted in the distant past and that paint is almost gone. It only has surface rust, no pits. I was going to leave it raw patina but I think I'll paint it.
    1547734623575-1868749418.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
    RustyGold likes this.
  19. us56456712

    us56456712

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    Lake Superior Shore, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    Even my grips are the same. Similar goseneck. The fork is different.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
    RustyGold likes this.
  20. RustyGold

    RustyGold

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,248
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley, Oregon
    Thanks for the crown pic...it will give me something to look for. That example I posted is pretty early (on thecabe the guy is listing it as an '11-'15).

    Head tube angle is significantly different as well...and all though the fork is bent, I don't see in collapse in the down tube.
     

Share This Page