BO15 1936 BAGGI "CHAMPION OLYMPIQUE ET DU MONDE"

[JesperJesper]

Ready to start on this fairly rare 1930's BAGGI French racing bike. Still needing some parts to make it a little more authentic per its original style, but overall I should be using what is pictured. Hard to find this stuff, even in Europe, needing racing rims, a must!

Out of the box after my second move in the last 8 months.

Baggi-Samyn 1923 Tour De France poster, rider Ottavio Pratesi (Italian), 1st place "Isolati" category. (artist: Faria; original photo credit: unknown; multiple online sellers of reproductions). Unfortunately, the full size file was too large to upload.

Take care,
Jesper

 

[BartRidesEternal]

Nice frame, how do you knows that its from the 30's?

a store I know in the Netherlands has a lot of old stuff: bikes to remember.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[JesperJesper]

Not sure if this is the original, but I still like it. Unknown crankset, any takers on identifying it?

 

[sandman]

Cool parts to start with and welcome to central Florida .

 

[OddJob]

Welcome to the build off! You've got a cool bike and parts to start, looking forward to your build.
RaT oN~!

 

[JesperJesper]

Thank you @BartRidesEternal, @sandman, @OddJob, @Captain Awesome, and @Couch tater.
I figured that by giving myself a finite deadline it would help keep this build on track if parts are available. I have a complete bike with parts as it stands, but some seem inappropriate for the type of bike. Rims are Rigida model "DECO =C=", but are fairly heavy considering the frame weight is fairly light for its age; weight of frame set has not been checked, headset and bottom bracket assembly are still installed.
I have been receiving help dating this frame, and parts installed as received. It would seem that the "OSGEAR" style derailleur by Simplex is at best no earlier than '34/'35 due to down tube mounting of the tension arm/idler pulley assembly, and phased out prior to the '40s in favor of rear fork mounted derailleurs which had been developed in the mid '30s. Prior to '35/'36 this part would have been mounted to the underside of the bottom bracket shell or even earlier to the chain stay. The whole derailleur is similar to their "Selection" series, which ended production before the '40s. By the late '30s-early '40s this was an obsolete set up for racing, although it continued to be used on lower end bikes through the '40s. Derailleurs officially allowed for the 1937 Tour de France. The brakes are early Gloria "Tour De France" steel calipers. I was told this bike was 1936, but suspect it could be as late as '39; who really knows. There are a few "cryptic" markings on the frame and fork which have yet to be deciphered. Pedals are Lyotard model 36 (perhaps where seller determined the 1936 year), but they certainly don't accurately date the frame. I have yet to find another example to compare this bike, but I'll stick with mid-late '30s until I or someone else can prove otherwise. At worst, l doubt it to be post WW2. I need to find out when Baggi ceased as a company regarding frame production.
If anyone can shed some light on this topic, please make a comment. Anything would certainly help.
Wooden racing rims for tubs have already been ordered. Maxi hubs (not Maxi C.A.R., later hubs) are presently laced to the Rigida rims and will be used with the new rims. 3 speed freewheel, only marking found on it: "Speciale".

Take care,
Jesper
PS. Bart, I will check your reference to that vintage parts company; they may have something l need, or have knowledge regarding this bike.

 

[Captain Awesome]

That front sprocket is amazing

 

[kingfish254]

Welcome to the fun. Beautiful bike and that chainring is superb!!!! Kinda reminds me of devil tails.

 

[OddJob]

Welcome to the fun. Beautiful bike and that chainring is superb!!!! Kinda reminds me of devil tails.

Yeah, that's one hades of a chain ring!

 

[JesperJesper]

One thing I can say with confidence regarding this bike has been the researching and input from others around the world regarding both the marque and the component manufacturers and distributors; as well as the history of those who have ridden it. I highly recommend the recounting of Ottavio Pratesi's 1911, and especially 1912 Tour De France endeavors. All I can say is: with what occurred in 1912, who needs doping! He rode this marque in '23 (Baggi-Samyn at the time), and I believe in '24, to 2 straight isolati (independent rider, no team) category wins, in '24(?) keeping 1st place in his category for the entire race, along with Ottavio Bottecchia (1st Italian winner) who also led the general category for the entire race! Now that's what I call domination! I can't wait to ride some history!

 

[JesperJesper]

Yeah, that's one hades of a chain ring!

Thanks for being "politically", or should I say "mythologically correct"!

 

[JesperJesper]

Sorry for the "mis-posting", common interests on shared work computer!

After more research on this "Osgear" style derailleur I have found it similar to 2 Simplex models shown on "Velobase". It uses the "Selection Standard" model (1934-35) shift lever assembly, and the "Selection Professionnel" model (1936-38) tension arm/idler pulley assembly; but the "gear changer chain fork" assembly matches neither model design. Nor does it match any Osgear/Super Champion models that I have been able to view for comparison. The tension arm is missing its spring; note "spindle" front of BB on left side view. I will either have to fabricate one myself or have one made; only problem is determining the amount of pressure that would need to be applied due to there being no means of adjusting this spring's tension.

 

[JesperJesper]

I have managed to contact the original owner (thankfully still living), and have verified that the bike is a least a 1936 (possibly 1935) model. It was purchased for him by his parents in 1936. One mystery solved, now just trying to determine if any parts had been replaced through the years. I should be receiving my rims in the next week or two so time to get the old wheels torn apart unless I get word that the rims are still original, then I will keep it that way and use the "woodys" on another early frame set I'm working on.

Take care,
Jesper

 

[Chad T]

Love the antique road bikes. Always amazes me how far technology had advanced.

Great read with all the history. (I usually skim most of the text and just look at the pics).......fascinating stuff.

That's the great thing about these build offs. You never know what you'll see. Have you been to the bikerecyclery site? They have a little bit of vintage stuff but not a lot this old. Looks like they do have a nice set of those pedals with straps for a decent price. http://www.bikerecyclery.com/lyotard-36-chromees-pedals-afa-toe-clips-straps-9-16/

 

[JesperJesper]

Love the antique road bikes. Always amazes me how far technology had advanced.

Great read with all the history. (I usually skim most of the text and just look at the pics).......fascinating stuff.

That's the great thing about these build offs. You never know what you'll see. Have you been to the bikerecyclery site? They have a little bit of vintage stuff but not a lot this old. Looks like they do have a nice set of those pedals with straps for a decent price. http://www.bikerecyclery.com/lyotard-36-chromees-pedals-afa-toe-clips-straps-9-16/

Thanks for the heads up Chad, I grabbed those pedals, if not for this bike, they will be used on another. Decent price for a full set up with cages and straps.

Take care,
Jesper

PS. The good "read" for Pratesi is about the 1911 and 1912 TDF races, which included bribery, conspiracy, and sabotage. It's great, but you need to tranlate to English, and I believe it loses a little in the translation unless you are good at reading Italian.

 

[kingfish254]

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how this piece works?

 

[OddJob]

KF, I think it's missing a spring, and there is no cable hooked up to it, but I believe it is a foot activated shifter / rear der all in one. Cogs on the rear hub, but the chain line is adjusted with this lever by pushing on it with your heel, I am guessing. In one of the first photos, there is a notched piece attached, so like each notch represents a different cog or gear, like a push lawn mower has for adjusting the height of the blade by raising / lowering the wheels to a specific notch. Just a single ring on the crank, so it's a 1 x 4 , not so different than my 1 x 13 geared mountain bike , only about a 100 yrs later!

 

[Chad T]

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how this piece works?

That's the chain tensioner. There is another lever with a slot/fork for the chain that moves the chain back and forth.

 

[JesperJesper]

That's the chain tensioner. There is another lever with a slot/fork for the chain that moves the chain back and forth.

View attachment 126861

Good photo Chad. It'll make more sense when reassembled. The rear "striker fork" is cable activated by a down tube mounted hand lever. You have to go past the selected "gear" notch and then back to that notch to get it to shift properly (makes that spoke guard a lot less "dorky" because there is nothing to stop an overshift!); it is only notched for the three speed cluster, but in later years went up to 5 speeds (Simplex stopped making these early on, Osgear/Super Champion still made them in the late '40s/early '50s). The front arm just "tracks" with the pulley; my arm is missing the spring providing tension. I'm working on a solution should I not be able to find an original one. Examples in the Velobase site: one arm missing its spring (down tube mount); the other photo shows it clearly on a different style arm (chainstay mount). My unit seems to be an intermediate model using features of the earlier "Standard" and later "Professionnel" models; presumably phased out by 1940.

Professionnel (missing tension spring)

(Photo Credits: eBay seller bibine63)

Standard

(Photo Credit: eBay Seller User ID probikefrance)

Both diagrams show the hand shifter lever, but it mounts where you would normally find your friction shifters; diagrams have the down tube section "cut out". The oldest versions of this style derailleur had the "striker fork" assembly mounted with the fork situated above the freewheel, which necessitated pedalling backwards in order to shift gears. Not sure when they started running 2 chainrings, but I know that initially the shifting was done via grabbing the chain by hand; something I still do to this day since I run of couple bikes (as evidenced in some photos) without the front derailleur because I rarely use the small ring and it eliminates adjusting the front for chain rub on the cage; and can also save a wee bit of weight, but I utilize the unused left shifter boss as a gun mount (just kidding, but it has crossed my mind!).

Take care,
Jesper

 

[JesperJesper]

Just a side note: since I don't really engage in "informal" and/or "formal" competitions, and after seeing (l looked at one, and only one class 1 entry; happened to be the top o' list at the time) an entry while cool, neat, etc. l determined quite easily that a "modified" bike seems to be what "flies" for a "Class 1" entry. I am essentially a "purist" regarding bikes (I have modified a bike to gift for other's tastes), and feel a little guilty for possibly using non-"OE" parts. I am not disgruntled; my build will still be, as accurately as possible, a representation of a high quality French road bike from the 30's. Original frame/fork paint and décor. Yes, I would love to upgrade with higher end components from 40 to 50 years ago, but what would that give me; really old steel, and fairly new aluminum. I certainly appreciate all of the gratitude given! I will march forward and hopefully will attain a reasonably accurate facsimile of a bike that could, and essentially did achieve success by many riders at prestigious events (Tour de France, World Championships, etc.).